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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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 Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Miyazaki wrote: |
Yes one can work legally in Taiwan with only a diploma.
You do not need to combine it with a diploma in TEFL. |
Ok, so provide us all with the Taiwan regulations that prove your point here! The regulations are there and I am familiar with them and I know that they don't prove your point but as you seem so sure about this please quote them, post them here, and provide a link to your source.
| Miyazaki wrote: |
| I will personally report you to Dave if you continue to tell people we cannot teach on Taiwan without a degree. |
What are you going to do? Tell the teacher on ALL of us, as you are the only one who is pursuing what is clearly an incorrect stance! |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Provide us with the regulations that don't allow diploma holders to receive and ARC/Work Permit.
Prove it!
You cant - because diploma holders can teach legally in Taiwan without a degree.
You're really creating a disservice here to people hoping to teach in Taiwan.
Shame on you. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Miyazaki, please define precisely what you mean by the term "diploma". |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Miyazaki, you really need to stop this. You are 100% in the wrong and it's not helping anything. My knowledge of this situation is NOT based on opinion or conjecture. It is based on FACT. It is based on the knowledge of operations of schools such as Hess, Kojen, Kid Castle, Gram and Shane.
These are among the largest school in Taiwan, are they not? Were you to apply to one of these schools with less than a degree, you would also NEED to have your school recognized by the Taiwanese government (ok, in many cases) AND a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL. This is FACT. As I said, Clark and are basing this on an intimate knowledge of the law and involvement in the ESL industry in Taiwan.
Many times people will come on these forums basing opinions on rumors and such. As we have see, a lot of times the Taiwanese government can give different answers to the same question!! This, however, is fact.
Also, it is worth clarifying the difference between a Diploma and a Degree.
They mean different things in different countries.
Here is what the Taiwanese government means: They want to see a Degree/Diploma from a 4 year University (or the equivalent). In the US, we don't make much of a distinction here. A 4 year College is the same as a 4 year University. You have your full Bachelor's degree and are all set to go! However, if you went to a 2 year college (Junior College) in either the US or
Canada, that is NOT enough. You will also need a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL.
In summary, this might make it clearer: You need a FULL Bachelor's degree/diploma to teach in Taiwan. Absent of that, you need a 2 year diploma PLUS a TEFL or TESOL or CELTA.
You will also need to do your research to be sure the Taiwanese government accepts both of your qualifications.
Go ahead and report that to Dave please Miyazaki! He very well might sticky it!
Actually, to the moderator's, it would actually be a very good idea to sticky the above. This way, the next time someone questions this, there will be an easy place for us to refer them to.  |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Miyazaki wrote: |
Provide us with the regulations that don't allow diploma holders to receive and ARC/Work Permit.
Prove it! |
Yeah that's logical!!! Prove what doesn't exist! 
You have come to this board claiming that we are all wrong and that you are right. You have stated in no uncertain terms that one can obtain a work permit with just a college diploma. The onus is on you to prove your assertions or else loose any credibility that your claims may have had. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: |
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In order to obtain a work permit to work as a foreign teacher of English in Taiwan, foreigners must meet the government�s requirements in regard to this.
First it seems important to qualify the class of worker that such foreign teacher can be classified as, as these do vary and the regulations regarding the issuance of work permits may vary between the various classes of teacher.
For this we can look to the Employment Services Act.
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Article 46
Unless otherwise provided for in the present Act, the work a Foreign Worker may be employed to engage in within the territory of the Republic of China is limited to the following:
3. Teacher at the following schools, as indicated:
1) Teacher at a public or registered private college/university or school established especially for foreign residents;
2) Approved teacher teaching course(s) on foreign language(s) at a public or registered private high school or below;
3) Teacher teaching course(s) at a public or registered private experimental high school�s bilingual department or at bilingual school;
4. Full-time teacher teaching course(s) on foreign language(s) at a short-term class registered for supplementary schooling in accordance with the Supplementary Education Act; |
For the purposes of this discussion I will limit my comments to teachers employed under Article 46, Part 4 (buxiban teachers) as I believe that this is the largest category of foreign teachers in Taiwan.
The above is important when we consider the applicability of the regulations �Permission and Administration: Foreign Workers�.
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Article 2
For the purposes of the Regulations:
1. The term "Class A Foreign Worker(s)" means those foreign person(s) who are employed to engage in jobs as referred to in Subparagraphs 1 to 6 of Paragraph 1 of Article 46 of The Act; |
Clearly foreign teachers who work in buxibans are considered to be �Class A foreign workers�
As Class A foreign workers, our employers are required to submit the following documentation on our behalf when applying for us to be given a work permit upon which to teach:
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Article 7
In applying for the permit to employ the Class A Foreign Worker(s), an employer shall submit the following documents:
1. Application form(s).
2. Photocopy of the national identity card of the person in charge of the Applicant Company, the certificates of the company registration, business registration, and that of the license for specially permitted businesses. The requirement of the photocopy of the license for specially permitted businesses may be exempted if so provided for in other laws or regulations.
3. Photocopy of employment contracts.
4. Name List of the employed Foreign Worker(s), and photocopy of their passport(s) and diploma(s).
5. Original of the receipt for examination fee.
6. Other documents as may be required by the Central Competent Authorities.
A Civilian-Organization Employer, in addition to the documents as referred to in Subparagraphs 1 and 3 to 6 of Paragraph 1 of this Article, shall also submit the photocopy of the national identity card of the person in charge of such organization and that of the certificate of such organization�s registration.
Where a submitted document was made/issued in a foreign country, the Central Competent Authorities may require the official verification thereof by the Republic of China�s embassy or consulate to that foreign country. |
Category 6 above, requests documents as required by the Central Competent Authorities. In the case of work permits for foreign teacher of English this authority is the Council of Labor Affairs (CLA).
When we look at the document the�Standards for Employment of Foreigners� some ambiguity as far as academic requirements of teachers comes into play. The regulations refer to universities and colleges but no clear definition of these institution is given.
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Article 40
For foreigners hired to perform the foreign language teaching courses referred to in Item 4 of Paragraph 1 to Article 46 of the Act, their teaching-related working hours shall not be less than fourteen hours per week. In addition, they shall have the following qualifications:
1. Age: 20 or above.
2. Graduation certificate from colleges or above.
3. The language to be taught by the foreign employees should be the national language used in the country specified on the passport of the employees.
For those foreigners referred to the preceding Paragraph, who have not graduated from four-year universities or independent colleges, both local and aboard, shall additionally have obtained certificates of receiving training for qualified foreign language teachers. |
Quite clearly however, a foreigner who wants to work as a buxiban teacher in Taiwan must have either a full degree (Bachelors) or above; or a college certificate (diploma) plus TESOL certification. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| May I just add that not all valid degrees are of four years. This might just be a North American thing. Three-year degrees work fine. But that doesn't really matter as isn't this discussion about the diploma issue? Let me see..... No, sorry. I still can't find where the OP queried the diploma issue. I can only find where she stated a lack of a degree. Why bring up the diploma issue if it is irrelevant? |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You have come to this board claiming that we are all wrong and that you are right. You have stated in no uncertain terms that one can obtain a work permit with just a college diploma. The onus is on you to prove your assertions or else loose any credibility that your claims may have had. |
I'm not claiming you're wrong - I'm telling you that you are 100% wrong!
You DO NOT need a degree to obtain an ARC and work permit to teach EFL in Taiwan.
Teachers can teach EFL legally in Taiwan with only a 2 year diploma. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Miyazaki wrote: |
| You DO NOT need a degree to obtain an ARC and work permit to teach EFL in Taiwan. Teachers can teach EFL legally in Taiwan with only a 2 year diploma. |
Please quote the specifics from the appropriate Taiwanese government regulations, as Clark always does. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Miyazaki, I think that this discussion has really run its course.
You made a point. Not one single person here agrees with you. We have all welcomed you to support your stance with something other than colored text and large fonts but you haven't done this.
Let me go back to your original post on this matter where you (incorrectly) admonished me for spreading incorrect information based upon your stated concerns for how such misinformation can severely disadvantage teachers who come Taiwan based upon wrong information. In light of the current state of the discussion I suggest that you follow your own advice and stop writing things here that are clearly only true in the world that you live in. |
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