Job Discussion Forums

thepreferrednomenclature · Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 80 Location: Beijing, Chaoyang

it'sme, you had to be the guy who dropped the add on thatsbeijing asking teachers not to accept anything less than 200. curious, were you?

amandabarrick · Joined: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 391

I'd agree with bdawg. We are talking about the price elasticity of English classes from a FT. While teaching is subjective, very very few people would be willing or able to pay 300 RMB per hour for a FT no matter how great they are. The market of people able to afford 300 RMB per hour is not large enough for half the FT's in China. If every FT demanded 300 RMB there would be a lot of FT's without work for a long time. Like he said, there are alternatives to FT's. A Chinese English teacher with a degree and experience charges less than 50 RMB per hour for tutoring or private classes that may be just as effective. And keep in mind the average salary for people in my city is around 1000 RMB per month. You think their are people who are willing to give 30% of their salary to a FT for one hour of class??? Get real.

I compare it to a Brazilian BBQ in my city that was expensive but reasonable at 60 RMB per person. They had a lot of business and made good money. Then they decided to double the price to 120 RMB per person. The restaurant is mostly empty now. Taste of food is also subjective...

--AB

saint57 · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:14 am Post subject:

bdawg · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 526 Location: Nanjing

chinadoll011083 · Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 5 Location: Shenzhen, China

I don't know where you guys live in China but demanding 200 or 300 RMB an hour is NOT out of the question in Shenzhen. In fact, that's more like the norm. I know Shenzhen is a big international city but I was told never to work for less than 200 an hour and most jobs advertised on the internet advertise anywhere from 200-400 an hour.

There are the occassional posts that advertise on the lower end (150 or 160 RMB/hour) but I'm under the impression that they are listed as such but are really negotiable. I know of someone who applied and interviewed for a job that advertised an hourly rate on the low side and turned it down because it was too low. They then wrote the employer an email stating that they wanted to make at least 250 an hour since it seemed to be the going rate and the employer agreed to up the rate with no hesitation.

I'm sure this trend isn't just in Shenzhen. You can probably find similar rates in places like Shanghai so don't give up! The money is out there. And for those of you in smaller cities, it's worth it to try for a higher rate. This is China after all...so BARGAIN! If they don't agree on your price then you can always settle for something in between or, if you're desperate, take the original offer.

chinadoll011083 · Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 5 Location: Shenzhen, China

I've also been told by some other teachers that have lived in Shenzhen longer than I have that the going rate for teaching private lessons in your home is 150-200 per child! Which means you could have a small group of 4 or 5 children gathered in your home for an hour and make 600+ for one hour's worth of work. Not bad, right? Just something to consider if you're looking for a higher hourly.

I know what you're thinking and yes, it could be that the rates are just higher in Shenzhen. But, even if the going rate in your town is 70 RMB/hr, holding group lessons for 5 children at a time would still yield you 350 for that one hour of work. Again, not bad, right? And in the bigger cities where you can actually ask for the 100 or 150 per/child/hr then you're making even more.

vikdk · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 1676

Don't worry chinadoll- just let them other posters eat their Brazilian BBQ's Laughing

Mysterious Mark · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 121

One thing about not being willing to settle for a lower wage is that some people will (correctly or incorrectly) interpret it as a sign that you know you're worth more. The Chinese know about fakes, and they also know that more money has a tendency to mean higher quality. (One hopes of course that people who aren't really worth more won't do this.)

Some people have serious psychological problems with money. "I wouldn't be able to look my co-workers in the eye if I made ten times as much as they did..." etc. Remember where you are - GETTING RICH IS GLORIOUS! If you really wouldn't be able to look the Chinese teachers in the eye because you're "too rich", maybe you're in the wrong country. If the tables were turned, do you think they wouldn't be able to look you in the eye? (Would you be able to look other foreigners in the eye? Do you look your fuwuyuans in the eye? Does your agent/boss look you in the eye? How much harder is his/her job?)

I sometimes point out to those trying to recruit me that they're offering too little for what they're demanding. I hope if enough people do that, they'll get the point.

If you're offered a job that doesn't really appeal to you, you can demand more money than you think the employer is willing to agree to, but be ready to be surprised by a yes.

I was once trying to get rid of a driver who was following me saying "How much? How much?" by telling him a lower price than I thought he would agree to. He agreed without argument... It was an unpleasant ride, and then he tried to double the price pointing out that we had made a round trip. I gave him the money I had said I would.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Well, some have mentioned fancifully high wages in this and in other threads; 300? 400? Even 200 is now considered beggar's alms if we believe these posters.

But how long do they last? Do they get a regular, decent job in which they can develop themselves and perhaps their career?
No.
And the reason?
Because if your rich customer feels you are swaggering a little too much and making more money than his driver who certainly does a lot more plus works a lot longer, then he will replace you as soon as he sees another biped with a white face and a fake Prada bag under his arm.

Seriously, the pay for FTs has reached its zenith; every time you turn down an offer of 100, another guy takes it for 80.

Itsme · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 624 Location: Houston, TX

200 or 300 may be a lot for a private student but what about a class of 40 students? IF you are getting paid 100 RMB per hour to teach 40 students then.... well have you ever asked your employer how much they charge the students per semester?

Do they answer straight away or do they do the whole "err uhh arree umm" thing or do they just say it is none of your business?

Any rough estimates out there? How much does one student pay for an "interest English" class that lasts one semester?

I interviewed for a job that said they charge their clients 250 an hour. They give the teacher 150 RMB and pocket the other 100 RMB. This came out of the interviewers mouth.

voodikon · Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 1363 Location: chengdu

what's with chengdu then? i make 4000 a month for 16-18 hours per week. i'm not complaining (i live just fine and save half), just curious. i did accept this lower wage (compared to last year's) to live in chengdu and to work the low number of hours. every other full-time job i've seen advertised here is in the vicinity of 4k/mo, and every other FT i've asked is also making 4k.

i haven't ventured into the part-time, private tutoring market, but one coworker i know has and is making 100/hr to give a group of four kids a lesson! that's 100 for all of them, 25 for each! i told him to ask for at least 100, and he did, and was told that was "way too much." and he speaks chinese!

in the meantime, i've hunted around for a chinese tutor for myself, and came into contact with one who wanted to charge 100/hr. when i replied i couldn't afford that, she said if i could put together a group of 2 or 3 students that she might be able to drop it to 80/student/hr. doesn't something about supply-and-demand laws make this all a little fishy? anyway, i found another tutor who's charging 20/student/hr, and she's working out fine so far.

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

nanchang · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:54 am Post subject:

While we may not be able to agree on a specific Yuan amount, I do wish teachers would expect more in China and stick together.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I don't know why we are always talking our hourly wages up while they are in fact going...nowhere!

In my first freelancing job (read "parttiming') I asked for 50 kuai an hour (but that was last century...around the time when Hong Kong was still a British colony). A Chinese person pointed out to me that my level was "low", so I hiked it up somewhat.Yes, 100 an hour was easily feasible, and it was more real money than 100 is today! The bus fares have multiplied by a factor of ten since then!

But the job offers one receives these days often sound much better than they really are. You want cento-cinquante per hora? Yes, you are promised "150 kuai one hour" - only to discover they mean it literally: a period has 40 minutes, then you are off until the next period begins 10 minutes later; you are going to work 80 minutes with a ten minute hiatus between and will be paid for 80 minutes, no more, no less.
And if there is a half-hour idle period between two blocks, then that's your loss, no one else's. They may promise you to pay 170 - that's fine, provided you swallow that 20 minute break they have in the middle ofa morning...no place for you to go, no quiet, and no privacy. It's your time, but it's not remunerated time.

And woe betide you if you arrive late on account of that blasted bus that ran a red traffic light and got stopped by a cop!
Oh, and then some classes get cancelled because the kids have "exams". That too is your risk!

Sorry, those who have to work for hourly wages are like treadmill runners - getting nowhere except getting much older in a much shorter time than the rest of us!