Job Discussion Forums

[veiledsentiments]

How many average American students of the same age know where Everest is? Even British grammar school girls?

I'm not saying that the Saudi kids aren't poorly educated, but so are wayyyyy too many other students around the world.

I have trouble figuring out exactly 'why' knowledge of either Everest or Mallory would matter to the average desert dweller anyway... it seems we are running into cultural assumptions of what knowledge 'matters.'

VS

[cmp45]

Scot47... why can't we help people by teaching as well as earn our daily bread...why does it have to be one or the other??? Balance and compromise works best, don't you think???

Knowledge is as general and specific as you make it. One person could be very knowledgeable in rocks and the next guy sports...general knowledge is a matter of culture and geographic location ...but as we become a more connected global village with the wide spread use of internet etc. I do think that it will increase overall general knowledge...maybe Saudi Arabia lags behind in this regard, but that doesn't make them less capable or less intelligent. Maybe has more to do with inflated egos???

As for supplementing materials it is usually up to the specific institution as to just how much freedom a teacher is given with regards to supplementary materials, because every institution has its own policies and ideas and time frames, sometimes you may not have the time to venture off the curriculum path or to use your own materials.

I think the best thing as was suggested; wait until you arrive and assess your situation. Ask the people in charge..hopefully that way you will get the info you need.

It is best to avoid controversial topics. Religion, politics, sex and anything related to these general areas are best left alone....(sports) football, food and travel in country and surounding countries are "nice" and "safe": topics. It is hard, but if you are creative you will find your way; small things such as a bit of humor, spontaneity injected into a lesson can help bring a drab class to life if only tempoarily.

Don't let negativity stop you from being the best you can be!!!
Good luck.

[jonks]

I really appreciate the straight-forward, practical advice cmp45.

[mouse5]

Forget any form of communicative approach here in KSA. Chalk (whiteboard pen) and talk is what they're used to. Grab the book they give you to use, get in the classroom and spoon feed the students with whatever they need to pass the next test. You get results, the students love you AND you get paid. Sorry but that's the way it is here. I've worked for 5 universities and colleges. KSA isn't exactly paradise for ambitious young graduates.
Let's face it we come here to make money - not to further our careers!

[dmb]

[scot47]

de-skilled ? YES !!!!

You also learn to mistrust the politically correct bull***t that people in the TEFL world are subjected to on a daily basis.

[Kaspar Hauser]

You mean well and you want to do a good job, but after a few months in KSA you�ll know how naive your questions are. Absolutely forget you ever had the idea of studying passages from the Koran in English. Until you�ve been in KSA, you just cannot understand how seriously they take their religion. They�re so paranoid and sensitive about it that it�s virtually impossible NOT to offend them. The most innocent comment can be interpreted as an insult to Islam, and you�re on the next plane out.

And as for your religious studies degree, it was a mistake to put that on your resume. I once knew of a guy who went through the long process of getting as job and a visa and was already to go when suddenly he was informed that he was no longer wanted. It turned out it was because he had studied in a divinity school 20 years earlier. The Saudis don�t want anyone coming with a hidden religious agenda. They don�t want proselytizers and they�re suspicious of anyone professing to want to learn about Islam. That marks you as a potential troublemaker or nutcase. Just shut up about religion, learn how to make wine, where to buy sid and cry all the way to the bank.

By the way, where is that you're going to work?

[lionbrian]

"Just shut up about religion, learn how to make wine, where to buy Sid and cry all the way to the bank" [u] THANKS KASPAR FOR YOUR SINCERE & HONEST LINE![/u]

KASPAR: You just hit the nail dude! BRAVO! But if you do not mind, I want to finish your quote:

�Just shut up about religion, PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, DELIVERING YOUR WESTERN OPINION ABOUT THE MANAGERS IN FRONT OF THOSE ASSKICKERS (FEEDBACK), learn how to make wine, GO TO BAHRAIN, GET DRUNK, GET LAID, HAVE AN AMERICAN BREAKFAST AND KILL YOUR HUNG OVER ONCE BACK IN SAUDI, where to buy Sid & MAKE SURE YOU GOT THE GOOD ONE, and cry all the way to the bank BUT SMILE TO THE BANK TELLER!

[jonks]

Thanks for the comments 'Kaspar'.

As you have probably read from the other comments, it is pretty clear in this thread that any topics to do with religion, politics, and gender issues etc are pretty much off bounds.
I can't say it is a surprise to me, but I wanted to find out what the people who live and work in Saudi actually say about it. The replies speak for themselves.

As for where I am going to (or not!) work, I don't think that really needs to be stated in relation to this topic. Why do you ask? The people who have taken the time to reply to my queries have pretty much agreed that some schools will welcome using authentiic materials in the classroom (that are not of sensitive content), and others will not. I daresay I needn't go any further than my prospective employer to get that particular information.

Also, of course my questions are naieve! I don't and have never lived in Saudi! I've read from this forum, a lot of useful information for newbies to the country, and I think that it is fantastic that people are prepared to give their advice when asked. To many people trying to decide if Saudi is for them or not, this is invaluable.

As for what is and isn't on my resume, thanks for the words of caution, but if a school won't employ me because of my choice of major, then so let it be. I am not ashamed of choosing to major in religious studies for my undergraduate degree, and if this prevents me from getting a job in Saudi then much to my dismay, I will have to accept it. By the way - this is not the case as I have already had several job offers in Saudi, and not once was it necessary to keep my major under covers.

By the way, there is quite a big difference between 'religious studies' (from an objective and purely academic stance) and divinity school (which I assume is subject to personal beliefs).

Despite everything else, from this post I have had some really good advice which I will sum up. Please let me know if there is anything I have failed to consider.

*Employers vary - some will welcome additional materials in the classroom - others will not.

*If it is encouraged, be careful not to touch on religion, politics, or sex with a barge pole.

*Don't let students know that I have a major in religious studies - though I still refuse to lie about this on my resume.

*Most schools simply want me to work through a set text, and not to use additional materials.

*Saudi students may or may not know where Mt. Everest is. ok...

What is 'sid'?

[lionbrian]

With Sid, you can make wine (alcohol) and, I believe, is pure alcohol that you can buy anywhere in The KSA.

The fact that you don't know Sid, then go to Saudi, I think it is a good place for you! Stay away from Latin American & Asian jobs because they have more than "Sid".

All the best!

[Miyazaki]

[Kaspar Hauser]

What is sid? Now you're asking about something important. "Sid" is short for "sidiqi" which is Arabic for "friend" and also the name of the nearly pure alcohol made from sugar and yeast that is distilled and sold there. Anyone in KSA with a mind to can learn how to make wine from grape juice. It's pretty easy. If you really must have beer, you can learn how to rebrew non-alcoholic beer. That�s a little tricky, though. You can end up with flat, sugary beer or beer that has so much carbonation that the bottles explode. But making sid requires a still, which is complicated and dangerous, so most expats buy their sid from the local sid dealer. It's just like buying drugs from a drug dealer (so I'm told). Be very careful. The two cardinal rules of illicit alcohol in KSA are NEVER give it to a Saudi and NEVER take it off the compound.

Getting back to authentic materials, I stand by what I said about studying the Quran in translation--it's just too sensitive. Saudis aren't even comfortable with the idea of the Quran being translated at all. After all, they know that Arabic was the first language, the language spoken by Adam and Eve and spoken by God when he (or she) spoke to Mohammed (PBUH). So the idea of altering the words of God is not something they approve of, and translations of the Quran in KSA are identified as containing the "meaning" of the Quran, since the actual Quran can only be in Arabic. (I'm telling ya', they really take this stuff seriously.) In the bookstores you'll see signs kindly asking non-Muslims not to touch the Qurans for sale there. Doing so would contaminate them.

Still, if you're careful, you can talk about Islam with your students. I often did. It's a good way to develop a rapport with your students, and besides, it�s such a huge part of their lives it�s practically the only thing many of them can talk about, except for maybe mobile telephones and their favorite wrestler. Just ask really broad, wide-eyed, innocent questions (even though after a few weeks you'll know what the answers are), like what is Ramadan, what does "Hegira" mean, etc. Don�t get too deep, don�t object or question anything they say with the implication that it doesn�t make any sense or can�t be true, never ask questions about various sects or divisions--like how are Shias are different from Sunnis (many Sunnis despise Shias, who are third-class citizens in KSA). Stay completely away from terrorism, Iraq, 9/11, Palestine, the Saud family and women's rights. Also, deflect all questions about your personal beliefs or Christianity in general, no matter how much you might want to discuss it. The reason is this: all it takes is one junior mutawa going to your Saudi supervisor and saying Mr. So-and-So is teaching us about Christianity, and you're on the next plane out.

Yes, KSA can be a minefield, but it's not all horrible. You�ll soon learn what to do and what not to do. You�ll make some expat friends, maybe a few Philipina nurses among them. You�ll pay off your school loans and credit card bills, and as we grizzled KSA veterans are so fond of saying, cry all the way to the bank.

The only reason I asked where you were going is that you might get some advice from me or others specific to your future employer. There are good ones and bad ones.

[Kaspar Hauser]

[jonks]

Hi Kaspar Hauser,

Thanks for all the input - it is really appreciated (by me).
I really like what you said about building up a rapport with your students.

Kaspar, I am still negotiating with different schools, so I feel it would be a bit presumptuous of me to go mentioning any names (as I haven't really confirmed anything yet), but I have been doing a lot of research on this site and others, and this school has been pretty well spoken of.

Thanks for your comments.

[jonks]