Job Discussion Forums

[isabel]

DDuck,
I love Mexico, and can't wait to get back there. But, if you want to get some good experience and a bankroll, come to Korea to teach for a year. I make the equivalent of $25,000 U.S. a year. That is good by Mexican standards, but the best part is that housing, health insurance, and transportation to and from Korea are all paid, and income tax is seriously minimal (I think that it is around 1.5%, its so little that I don't even care.)

I clear almost $2000 U.S. per month and usually don't spend a third of that on living expenses. I spent a month recently in Australia, on vacation, and plan to see a lot of Asia before I head back to the West. Food is cheaper than in Mexico, if you eat Korean.

Its not as beautiful as Queretero or the rest of Mexico (of course, this is a subjective judgement, some of Korea is quite beautiful, but I am biased towards Mexico.) But there are things that I love and will miss about Korea.

[dduck]

Thanks Isabel for the suggestion. I've just extended my visa for another 3 months, and I plan on sticking around Mexico for a while longer. When my visa runs out I'll probably hop on a bus and start travelling south. The way I see it I'm being paid 3rd world wages, and paying 1st world rent. So I might as well work in a 3rd world country.

I'd like to stay in Latin America until I have, at least, 1 years experience. I'm taking it one day at a time!

Iain

[Lee_Marrero]

Isabel I lived in Korea (Bundang Gu Seoul) and Mexico City. Food is not cheaper in Korea. What kind of food? Chicken on a stick (Tak O Chi) or rice cake?? Food is definitley cheaper in Mexico, especially areas other than DF. In Mexico City a plate of chicken enchiladas cost 30 pesos at a Cocina Economica thats 2.85 US. This includes lemonade, rice, beans, a bit of vegetables and tortillas. I cannot think of any meal in any place in Korea that costs 3000-4000 Won that is as varied/balanced.
Also be careful on advising dduck to go to Korea, Koreans are not found of English, Scottish or Irish teachers and in many cases refuse to hire non American/Canadian applicants while giving Australians/NZers less pay. Korea is a very biased society.

[isabel]

I guess that the price of food outside of D.F. might be cheaper than Korea, more or less. I can get Bibimpap (rice with meat and veges, an egg and hot chili paste) with soup and side dishes for about $3.00 U.S. They refill the side dishes and soup when they see that they are empty, for no charge. Would I rather have enchiladas? No contest. But I am here for other reasons, and I do like Korean food, just not as much as I like Mexican food. I usually cook my own food, Korean style, and that is very cheap. Western food is expensive and bad. If you were in Seoul, the food was probably more expensive, just like it is more expensive in D.F.

One of the best loved and best treated teachers where I teach is Irish. When I returned from Australia last month I met a man on the plane who is from Darwin (Australia) who was coming back for his seventh year, he loves it here. I think the most maligned teachers here are either from the U.S. or aren't white. Those from the U.S. suffer from association with the military (who behave extremely badly here for the most part) and because of U.S. foriegn policy. That being said, I have been only treated well since I have been here (from Miami.) Racism is another issue, its everywhere, and Korea is certainly no exception, but there is also a black guy in our school, and he doesn't seem to have real problems with race, just petty annoyances- its not excusable by livable.

There are a lot of myths about Korea. The truth is that its not a bad place to be, it is the gateway to the rest of Asia, you can make good money here without killing yourself, and if you come with a good attitude and do your work you will be just fine. I love Mexico City, but if I had listened to all of the B.S. about it from everyone in the States, and in Guadalajara, I would never have gone there and had a great time. Every place has it good and bad points. But, as I said, if you want to earn a bankroll, and see another part of the world, Korea is a good place to be.

[Lee_Marrero]

I definitely disagree with Americans suffering from association with the military. At my school there were 3 foreign teachers, a Canadian girl, A New Zealander and myself. I earned 2.5 million won for 25 hours a week, Ann the Canadian earned 2.0 million and Craig the NZ guy made 1.8. The Koreans certainly prefer Americans and Canadians over any other native speakers, that is not an arguable point. Whether or not the military behaves badly I have no idea, there were no soldiers working at my school. Kimch bibimbap is great but gets old quick. I enjoyed mandu, galbi-tang and many other dishes. The only difference was that I wasnt there to earn a "bankrole" but to experience the culture 2-2.5 million won is nothing compared to what I earned and earn in the US I make over 3,500 monthly in my current position but find it extremely boring and unfulfilling.

[isabel]

I have heard that at hogwans (private instititutes) people get paid different wages, the locals getting the lowest. I am at a university, and we all get paid the same.

I would never do anything "just for the bankroll". I teach English abroad as a means of seeing the world and other cultures. I actually have a well paying job in the States anytime I want it, but I don't want to do that now. But the pay was a deciding factor in my decision for Korea. I get to live here and learn about Korea, I get to see Asia, and I get to save money- not a bad situation. I like my students a lot and am treated very well at my job.

You are making over $3500 in Mexico? I have to admit, if I could earn even close to what I do here I would be in Mexico. I am not here to get rich, but I do need to earn a good wage for a while- financial necessity. But, again, Mexico is where my heart is and where I will return when I can. I want to be able to return there with enough money to live for a while, get my Spanish up to speed, and do a good job search.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

Isabel, I believe you misread something in Lee's post. I don't think he's making USD $3500/mo. while working as an EFL teacher in Mexico . . . unless he's supplementing his income in ways I wouldn't venture to make a guess at.

Just as cost of living varies greatly depending on location within Mexico, the same is true in the U.S., of course. I don't know how far a USD $40,000-45,000/year salary after taxes goes in So. California, but in any part of Mexico, I think one could live very comfortably on that.

Lee, if Isabel did read your post correctly, and you are making 3500 dollars a month teaching EFL in Mexico, then how about lining me up with your employer?

[isabel]

Yes, I see now that he is in San Diego, where 35K doesn't go far.

I dream of the job in Mexico where I can put just a bit in the bank and live modestly. I'm going to do an on-line M.A. TESOL so I will be qualified for a university position there. Meanwhile, I am accumulating experience here in Korea.

[some waygug-in]

Price of food? Well, that depends on what kind of food, where you buy it.

In Mexico, food often looks cheap if you are thinking in terms of American dollars, but when you start working for pesos you realize just how expensive a 30 peso meal is.

It's not that food in Korea is cheaper or more expensive compared directly, it's that the salary in Korea is going to be a lot higher.

I can eat at a restaurant every day in Korea if I want to, and still save over half my paycheck every month.

There was no way I could do that in Mexico. No matter what I did there, I would be lucky if I could save 100 pesos a month. Usually what happened there is one month I would save 100, but the next month I would lose 200 or 300. I wasn't living high on the hog or anything either.

Just scraping by.

Personally, I would rather be in Mexico any day than Korea, but as far as working goes, there's something to be said for being able to pay your bills at the end of the month and still have lots to spend and still have lots saved.

I found the teaching in Mexico to be a lot more rewarding, in Korea, I often wonder why they even bother. If you teach kids, you will be doing more baby-sitting than teaching and if you teach adults, you will probably be "teaching" conversation classes. Which would be fine if the students could actually make a sentence. I find Korea to be a lot more stressful than Mexico, and the lack of holidays is really starting to get to me.
But you can save money here.

Cheers

In Mexico there was lots to do and I had tons of free time, but no money to do it with.

In Korea, I have tons of money, but no free time, and not much that really interests me either.

Choose your poison

[isabel]

some waygug-in

yeah, I know what you mean. But I am at a university, and I get 20 weeks paid vacation a year, so I leave the country on long trips- I just had a month in Australia. The university jobs here are killer. You generally need an M.A., but not always. We have teachers here that have good experience, but no M.A. And there are things to do in Korea- like travel around to temples and the mountains, go hiking and boating, etc.
The other thing is that you can't work at all in Korea without at least a 4 year degree.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[some waygug-in]

That depends on which university and also on whether or not you work directly for the university or for their associated language institute.

Many jobs advertise the 2 months of vacation, but in the small print (if it's mentioned at all) you will notice that they expect you to work during that time. They will have you working at their language institute, teaching kids for your supposed vacation and doing split shifts worse than any hagwan job.

Just because it's a university job, doesn't mean it's better. (sometimes they are)

It just depends on the politics of the place and how well they treat you as a foreign instructor.

Just read the Job information Journal about some people's experiences with Korean universities. Why are we discussing this on the Mexico forum anyway?

I certainly think Ben's job is a Killer job, just for the fact alone that he get's to live in Mexico and not put up with all the crap in Korea. But that's a bitter hagwan perspective talking.
Cheers

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[isabel]

There are several differences between a good university job in Korea and one in Mexico. And I have several reasons for being here instead of there.

First, I tried to get a university job in Mexico, when I was there, and I was told that I needed to have a M.A. in TESOL or a related field- mine is in Political Science. Second, the cost of living, taking into account free housing and other perks, is lower in Korea and I am able to save much of my wages. Finally, while I was in D.F. commuting hours a day, making a good hourly wage but spending one hour commute time for one hour work, I was offered this job in Korea. It was a difficult choice, but I made it and I am glad that I did.

I am planning to take a second M.A., this time in TESOL, work on my Spanish, save money and return to Mexico to get a university job. Eight weeks vacation while living in Mexico would be just fine. It would be worth the difference just to be there.

Working in Mexico is wonderful. You shouldn't leave a good job there to take a gamble here. But if you are killing yourself with split shifts for $600 a month, it is worth considering coming here and earning some real money. You can get your M.A. while here, like I am doing. I knew a lot of people there killing themselves in Guadalajara because they were afraid to go to D.F., where the wages are at least decent. I can imagine that the move to South Korea, especially these days would be a bit intimidating. I am just saying that things are fine here. Challenge yourself and see another part of the world.

I am responding on the Mexico forum, first because I love Mexico, so I eavesdrop here so I will feel closer. I specifically responded to DDuck's dilemma because I think that one can get experience here and go back to Mexico and get better work there (the ultimate goal for me, anyway.) The point of Dave's forum, at least for some of us, is to trade experiences and share advice. That is what I am trying to do. I hope I am not being too much of an interloper.

I also know that some people really burn out on Korea because of the hogwan experience. I can understand that. But that is not everyone's experience.

There are good jobs here, and I understand mine isn't the best- some pay even better with less working hours, and some are, of course, worse- you have to do your homework, and if you do decide to take the plunge, always check with the people on the Korea board.

[Ben Round de Bloc]