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casual
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 105
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 Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Synne"]Champions will be either USA or Mexico.
[quote="casual"]Korea might not have got so far if they hadnt been assisted so much by the officials!! lol[/quote]
[b]I didnt know the officials could help in shootouts?
Korea scored more than Spain...how does a referee arrange that?[/[/b]quote]
Spain and Italy both had perfectly good goals disallowed against Korea and Italy had Totti sent off which was a terrible decision.
Referees make mistakes but these were huge factors that assisted Korea.
I like the underdog to win and had a chuckle to myself when Korea beat both Italy and Spain. But the fact remains that Spain and Italy lost becasue of poor refereeing decisions. |
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Like a Rolling Stone
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Group A: Poland
Costa Rica (  to the Germans  )
Group B: England
Sweden
Group C: Wow!  This is a tough group. I think Argentina and Holland. But I could be wrong.
Group D: Portugal
Iran
Group E: Another tough one... but I think USA and Italy (not in that order though) 
Group F: Brazil Croatia
Group G:France South Korea
Group H:Spain Ukraine
Overall Champions: I thought England but Rooneys toe means it is a tricky one...  so now I think it could be Spain
Dark horse: Iran |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I think the reason they lost was becuz Korea scored 5 goals to Spains 4 in the shootout...
...course maybe that had nothing to do with it eh  |
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casual
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Synne"]I think the reason they lost was becuz Korea scored 5 goals to Spains 4 in the shootout...
...course maybe that had nothing to do with it eh :wink:[/quote]
Its the part before the pen shootouts that I am talking about. We all know the outcome of the pen shootout but it only got to that stage because of crap refereeing. Thats a fact that you can choose to overlook if you want.
I think I will have to let this drop, mainly for the fact that I have defended Spain and Italy to the hilt but they are two footballing nations which I dont give a monkeys toss about!! lol |
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ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| casual wrote: |
Champions will be either USA or Mexico.
| casual wrote: |
| Korea might not have got so far if they hadnt been assisted so much by the officials!! lol |
I didnt know the officials could help in shootouts?
Korea scored more than Spain...how does a referee arrange that?[/quote]
Spain and Italy both had perfectly good goals disallowed against Korea and Italy had Totti sent off which was a terrible decision.
Referees make mistakes but these were huge factors that assisted Korea.
I like the underdog to win and had a chuckle to myself when Korea beat both Italy and Spain. But the fact remains that Spain and Italy lost becasue of poor refereeing decisions. |
Disagree. Some of the Europeans they beat, and a few others who perhaps thought they ought to know their underdog place, moaned that Korea got refereeing favours, but these complaints don't really stand up to any serious analysis - which, unfortunately, they didn't get much of.
Italy did indeed have the ball in the net when Tomassi was wrongly judged offside, but the whistle had been blown several seconds before he put it in, with the keeper clearly aware of this, so to call it a disallowed goal is stretching it a bit. Sure, Korea benefitted from a (assistant) refereeing error there (like every team does sometime or other), but they were also on the receiving end of a few in the same game. Totti got just a yellow for elbowing in the 1st half - that's usually a straight red. There were also a couple of times early in the 2nd half when the camera caught him diving (once when the Korean player was a good 3 metres past him!) that the ref didn't spot or ignored, which could've also got him his 2nd yellow. You could argue that the incident when he was sent off was a poor decision, but it's an even stronger argument that he shouldn't have even been on the pitch then anyway. Another Italian player (Vieri, I think) was also guilty of an elbowing offence which actually fractured the Korean player's cheekbone, yet he too escaped unpunished.
Korea also missed a penalty in the 1st half which should have be retaken due to players encroaching in the area - admittedly this isn't always pulled up, but had the ref really been helping Korea, he surely would've acted on that one.
In the Spain game, the first one disallowed was for a very obvious foul by a Spanish player who was pushing down on a Korean's shoulders to help him gain height for a header. Granted, the view of the tv camera from the side was obscured by other players, but a replay from the camera behind the goal showed it clearly. The second one, I must admit, I did think was a wrong decision at the time, although like the Italy one, the flag had been raised and the whistle blown long before the ball was in the net, with the goalkeeper clearly making little effort to save it. A shame that in the fuss about this disallowed "goal" everyone heaped scorn on the Trinidadian linesman, but no-one bothered to ask for his version of events.
A month or so later he said in an interview that far from being embarrassed by the error, he actually stood by it as a correct decision. He explained that he had been well aware the ball hadn't crossed the line on the ground before the Spanish player centred it, and he had raised his flag because the ball had swerved out of play in mid air. The tv replay doesn't show conclusively either way but it does show that (a)the linesman was perfectly placed, (b) the tv camera wasn't and (c) the ball did indeed swerve quite a bit between the crosser's boot and the striker's head. All of which point to a strong possibility that this linesman actually got it right, and most of us were wrong.
Sorry, casual, a bit long-winded but thought you might be interested. I also think it was unfair that so many Europeans jumped on the 'they got help from the refs' bandwagon when in the case of other teams they wouldn't have. Very good example was my own country, England in 1996 - in uncannily similar circumstances to Korea, they too beat Spain on penalties after a 0-0 in which they were 2nd best most of the game. Spain had a goal disallowed for offside in that game, which tv replays showed was quite a long way onside. Did people then suggest the host nation had only reached the semis thanks to refereeing help? Not that I recall.
Anyway, in 2006, I hope both Japan and Korea do well again. To be honest, I'm not sure either will get past the group stage. My dark horse prediction is Switzerland who are in Korea's group. Japan also have a tough group - I suspect Croatia will go through with Brazil, but Australia could spring a surprise or two.
Not a big fan of them at all, but I've a feeling that Italy might win it. |
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casual
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Some pretty good points from Ironopolis. You must have those matches on tape or you have a hell of a good memory!!
Not sure who I think will win it. Hopefully not Brazil but with Rooney and Owen looking unlikely, England simply havent got the forwards to do the business at that level.
Argentina arent being talked up very much so I will go for them. |
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ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| casual wrote: |
Some pretty good points from Ironopolis. You must have those matches on tape or you have a hell of a good memory!!
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A bit of both, and also had the same discussion with several other football fans through the last 3 and a bit years. Korea's case never really got heard much, as they were too busy celebrating their progress to bother arguing. I know that Hiddink was quite irritated by what he saw as unfair attempts to pour cold water on his team's success but he thought the best response was to not make an issue of it.
However the doubters saw them, Korea still had plenty to be pleased about, but I feel very sorry for that Trinidadian linesman. As I said, examining the incident suggests he was actually right. Yet everyone, including disgracefully Sepp Blatter himself, poured ridicule on him without ever letting him state his case. He's definitely owed an apology by quite a few people.
I was also going to go for Argentina, but it's usually a European team when it's in Europe. Who knows - Perhaps that'll change as so many of the South American players are now playing in Europe anyway. |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| casual wrote: |
| Argentina arent being talked up very much so I will go for them. |
Well when you are ranked top in the world and you cant get pass preliminaries you need to wonder why.
Mexico's performance in the confederation cup brings me to suspect they might pull out one hell of a run this cup. |
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Eva Pilot
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Far West of the Far East
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Brazil don't have the defence to go all the way. It's exploitable.
England could go far with or without Rooney, it's just a matter of whether they believe they can.
Argentina look solid.
Italy are due for a big run I think they'll be up there towards the end.
Netherlands will also threaten.
Spain will choke again, as they do. Japan and Korea will make very minor contributions. |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:48 am Post subject: |
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A friend of mine (high school JET) and also a football nut, told me that all of her students are cheering for The Netherlands.
Is it the same in your schools? If do, why do you think that is?
(My theory was, and I know absolutely NOTHING about Dutch league play, that perhaps the Dutch national team has many Ajax players, which seems to be a popular team here in Japan for some reason)...
What do you guys think? |
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angrysoba
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| casual wrote: |
| Not sure who I think will win it. |
Casual, would you rather have France or Germany win? Tough one, eh? |
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casual
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="canuck"][quote="casual"]Not sure who I think will win it.[/quote]
Casual, would you rather have France or Germany win? Tough one, eh? :P[/quote]
I would rather France won. Although it would be a nightmare scenario for many an Englishman to see France v Germany in the final!! lol
In response to Jim Dunlop. Holland are pretty popular with everyone, except Germany and Belgium.
The main reasons I would say are that they play fast attractive football, always have a few great flair players and they arent known for dirty play. In England you will see many Ajax and Holland tops too.
Hollands main problem is that their players often have huge egos, resulting in the team frequently falling apart in major tournaments. The most notable instance was in Euro 96 when there was a lot of tension between the black and white players, and Edgar Davids was eventually sent home.
But, if they play for each other and keep their egos in check Holland can beat anyone on their day. |
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markle
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Eva Pilot wrote: |
| Brazil don't have the defence to go all the way. It's exploitable. |
Who needs a defence when you score fifteen goals a match. Good defences make for boring football. |
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hamel
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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the korean papers said that most koreans think japan will fall in the first round. i'm more of a baseball person myself. i thought japan did very well in the wbc.
world cup helps get teenage boys talking though, so that's not bad. |
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