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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:32 am Post subject: |
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A couple months ago I was told by some potential employers that the "law" now requires FT's be born in a native speaking country, i.e. Australia, UK, Ireland, Canada, New Zealand, and USA. Of course, I didn't buy that one bit at all. I think it was just another excuse for them to turn down Chinese-looking job applicants.
Oh yeah and I am Chinese Canadian currently finishing off my contract in Inner Mongolia. |
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caneisha
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 6
Location: SEATTLE
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| As long as you have the required qualifications (BA in English, native speaker, TEFL cert), you can get a good teaching job in Macao with high pay US$1500 per month and more, with free apartment. |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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nil
Last edited by william wallace on Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| william wallace wrote: |
| They could play the WE are Chinese or the WE are foreigners |
I didn'tt, have not, and never will say I am "Chinese" while I am in China.
In China, I am a Canadian first and last. |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: Dear TW.... |
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nil
Last edited by william wallace on Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| william wallace wrote: |
| But I find it a bit weird, to be 100% honest. I have a friend here who is half Chinese and half Canadian, he's a pretty brilliant guy, and I love to have, what I hope, great intellectual conversations, but he being so brilliant, is a bit quarky, but he's fluent in French(so the ability is available), but speaks almost NO Chinese, especially after 10 years here and married to a local.The only thing I can think of is, he doesn't want to be confussed with being Chinese. Why? |
Shame on you, William! Half Canadian? You mean Canadian = white? So by that definition I am not a Canadian? Sorry, after having spent two-and-half years in China, I am really sick and tired of hearing the Chinese telling me I �don�t look like a foreigner� and the last I�d expect to hear from anyone was a fellow Canuck.
But to be fair, I think we should be aware that the word �Chinese� is a bit too broad-spectrum when used in China. Outside China, it is used to identify a certain group of people�s ethnicity. But in China, it is used to identify a nationality. When I find myself having to clarify my status here, I tell people that I am �hua qiao� 华侨, i.e. born-abroad-Chinese but I am not �zhong guo ren� 中国人. Some people understand this concept, but many still insist that I am no different from them. I am not ashamed of my Chinese heritage, no far from it. In fact, I am very proud of it. But I am here as a foreign teacher, so why should I tell people that I am Chinese?
Your half-Chinese friend has a distinct advantage over me, and that�s his non-Chinese half. It is a lot easier for him to tell people that he is a foreigner than it is for me. Because of his non-Chinese side, obviously he has non-Chinese facial bone structure. But for me, because I am 100% Chinese, people often look at me as a traitor and a �jia yang gui zi� 假洋鬼子, i.e. a fake foreign devil (a wannabe) when I tell them that I am a Canadian and not a Chinese. Your friend is taking full advantage of his non-Chinese side. When he wants to please the Chinese people, he would tell them he considers himself Chinese because of his Chinese heritage. Likewise, he can please any and all China-hating foreigners by being on their side because of his non-Chinese heritage. The guy is in a win-win situation.
| Quote: |
| An Aussie-Chinese gal came over here and I detected an uneasiness within her self-identity while she was here.One time while we were monitoring the IELTS exam; I wanted to get drinks for everyone and when I asked her and she responded: What-a (Brit pronunciation of wa TER) and I thought it sounded like that extra vowel the Chinese speakers put to words like; Look-a look-a... That was where I first noticed her uneasiness, if by my own faux pas. |
Was she born in Australia, or was she born in China? How old was she? I believe her uneasiness arises from the fact that almost everyone she sees is Chinese, speaks Chinese, and everything she sees is Chinese.
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| Yet, I still don't understand why these two people neither took advantage of an environment that is far more in favour of native born, than those invading foreigners, as well maintaining roots with people from your own culture..... Then, you have all the hippy-hoppy, roll out the red carpet, ladies and gentleman, I present on the world stage, the next great empire-China! |
Oh William, how na�ve you are. The key word here is �native born�, which I am not. If anyone reading this thread thinks foreign teachers of Chinese heritage are more welcomed in China, and we have an easier time adapting and adjusting here, then they are dead wrong. I have faced discrimination, and people (even Chinese colleagues) have expressed hostility towards me. They see someone with a Chinese face working far fewer hours than they have to, yet making more money than they do. Many students don�t consider me an authentic foreigner because of my Chinese background, and I am constantly reminded by people that I am �Chinese� so I should love China and its customs. What a load of BS! |
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Bayden
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| caneisha wrote: |
| As long as you have the required qualifications (BA in English, native speaker, TEFL cert), you can get a good teaching job in Macao with high pay US$1500 per month and more, with free apartment. |
I doubt it, unless you get VERY lucky. |
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Ger
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 334
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| There are loads of local Chinese people teaching English in China. For every one foreigner in a school, the pupils/students have their local Asian teachers of English. It is the same in Hong Kong. In fact, in HK the local English teachers (that is the Asians) believe that they know how teach English (e.g., grammar) better than any foreigner. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ger wrote: |
| In fact, in HK the local English teachers (that is the Asians) believe that they know how teach English (e.g., grammar) better than any foreigner. |
The local teachers have a distinct advantage over the FT's and that's their ability to speak the local language. So students can understand them, and they can draw comparisons between English grammar and Chinese grammar. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| tw wrote: |
| Ger wrote: |
| In fact, in HK the local English teachers (that is the Asians) believe that they know how teach English (e.g., grammar) better than any foreigner. |
The local teachers have a distinct advantage over the FT's and that's their ability to speak the local language. So students can understand them, and they can draw comparisons between English grammar and Chinese grammar. |
But almost all of these local teachers fail in imparting their "knowledge" or "understanding" of English to their students; just because someone can talk about the Magna Charta in their first language doesn't mean they can get their audience to absorb the deeper-lying philosophy behind it. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| caneisha wrote: |
| As long as you have the required qualifications (BA in English, native speaker, TEFL cert), you can get a good teaching job in Macao with high pay US$1500 per month and more, with free apartment. |
YOu are talking about jobs in Macau? There aren't that many to go round, and U.S.$ 1500 works out to MOP 12'000 minus a few - that's not a salary to be proud of in Macau, my dear! You will need twice that much to be able to say "I am enjoying my life here!" |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| just because someone can talk about the Magna Charta in their first language doesn't mean they can get their audience to absorb the deeper-lying philosophy behind it. |
and being able to write about the magna carta in a second language can also produce a few funnies aswell - good on ya Rog still keeping your sense of humour while all around are making their Mcarguments  |
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voodikon
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 1363
Location: chengdu
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| tw wrote: |
| Your half-Chinese friend has a distinct advantage over me, and that�s his non-Chinese half. It is a lot easier for him to tell people that he is a foreigner than it is for me. Because of his non-Chinese side, obviously he has non-Chinese facial bone structure. But for me, because I am 100% Chinese, people often look at me as a traitor and a �jia yang gui zi� 假洋鬼子, i.e. a fake foreign devil (a wannabe) when I tell them that I am a Canadian and not a Chinese. Your friend is taking full advantage of his non-Chinese side. When he wants to please the Chinese people, he would tell them he considers himself Chinese because of his Chinese heritage. Likewise, he can please any and all China-hating foreigners by being on their side because of his non-Chinese heritage. The guy is in a win-win situation. |
i don't think it's so win-win. i pretty much look like a whitey, but then i get my students asking me asinine questions like, "why don't you have 'yellow' hair and blue eyes like our other foreign teachers?" but there are some advantages: with dark hair i don't stand out quite so much as the 'yellow'-haired foreigners, but at the same time i don't speak chinese, so i can't pretend either. generally people just peg me as "外国人/老外," but i've been asked by a handful of people if i'm chinese, and one cab driver guessed i was korean. but the most interesting incident was when i was walking with my abc, bilingual friend here (ok, he tends to dress a bit ... creatively) and happened to catch a stray badminton birdie. when he returned it to its owner, said owner bowed and said, "arregato!" we snickered and walked away. and when my ex (vietnamese american) was here for two months, he ran into a girl from a rural area who refused to believe that he wasn't chinese. she insisted he was cantonese. and even the police, when he was trying to register for his residence permit, kept asking why he looked chinese. and i've run into a handful of asian americans (generally the chinese-born, western-country-raised variety) who seem to feel the need to assert their status as foreigner by speaking unnecessarily loudly in places such as crowded elevators, bars, etc. i do sometimes envy bilingual abcs their language ability, but i don't think i'd want to be in the shoes of americans/europeans/australians/etc. of non-chinese asian descent trying to navigate life and work here. |
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moderntime
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 26
Location: Changchun, China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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This is a very interesting discussion, as I'm Hong Kong-born and American-raised, but my experience here is pretty different from tw's.
I consider myself Chinese. Overseas Chinese, sure, but definitely Chinese. I find it really irritating when people here tell me that "I look Chinese." My answer is, "I AM Chinese," but even though I tell them that I'm overseas Chinese from America it's an impossible task to get people to understand this.
It's actually better to just say that I'm from Hong Kong. People think Hong Kong is cool, and plus they respect the differences in provincial dialects. It's silly but their attitude definitely changes if I say I'm from Hong Kong.
People here don't believe that I'm Chinese either. I've been interrogated by an acquaintance--she kept asking me if I was Korean as though I would break down and confess that yes, I was. People are also really rude about the fact that my Chinese isn't great and I speak with a distinctly different accent as my mother is from Taiwan. They'll tell an obvious looking foreigner who can only say "Ni hao" that his/her Chinese is wonderful, but what people will tell me is that my Chinese is crap.
Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this exactly--but it's definitely been an eye-opening experience. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| voodikon wrote: |
| and when my ex (vietnamese american) was here for two months, he ran into a girl from a rural area who refused to believe that he wasn't chinese. she insisted he was cantonese. and even the police, when he was trying to register for his residence permit, kept asking why he looked chinese. |
One thing I have found out about Mainland Chinese is how ignorant and narrow-minded many of them are. They are stuck with the mentality that foreigners are foreigners because they don't look Chinese. They forget that Koreans and Japanese also look Chinese, and many Chinese look more like foreigners than typical Han Chinese. By that I am referring to the minority ethnic groups from Xinjiang.
My wife always comments how much the Thais, the Burmese, and the Vietnamese look like southern Chinese, i.e. short, dark and skinny.
| Quote: |
| and i've run into a handful of asian americans (generally the chinese-born, western-country-raised variety) who seem to feel the need to assert their status as foreigner by speaking unnecessarily loudly in places such as crowded elevators, bars, etc. |
I don't think they are any worse than those who were born in China, spent a few years studying in the West, then come back to China and think they are much better than their fellow countrymen. They speak English to their friends and to other Chinese (even if the others don't understand them), and look down on the rest of the other Chinese. I can only speculate those Chinese Americans behave the way they do because they feel the need to stand out to be recognized that they are different and perhaps more superior. 
| moderntime wrote: |
This is a very interesting discussion, as I'm Hong Kong-born and American-raised, but my experience here is pretty different from tw's.
I consider myself Chinese. Overseas Chinese, sure, but definitely Chinese. I find it really irritating when people here tell me that "I look Chinese." My answer is, "I AM Chinese," |
ModernTime, it's great to hear from another FT of Chinese heritage. Don't get me wrong, when I say that I consider myself a Canadian while in China, I am not forsaking my Chinese heritage. I am very proud of my Chinese background, but as far as nationality is concerned, I am a Canadian. Like you, when people tell me I look Chinese, I also tell them it's because I am Chinese.
I often have to remind people that Chinese of Mongolian or Korean heritage consider themselves Chinese (of Mongolian/Korean ethnicity). So it's no diffrerent in my case: I am a Canadian of Chinese heritage. Still, too many Chinese can't grasp the concept that there are millions of Chinese living outside of China who could care less about China.
| Quote: |
| It's actually better to just say that I'm from Hong Kong. People think Hong Kong is cool, and plus they respect the differences in provincial dialects. It's silly but their attitude definitely changes if I say I'm from Hong Kong. |
The one big difference between us is that you were born in Hong Kong, which Mainland Chinese consider a part of China. I was born in Brunei, so definitely not a part of China. So in my own opinion, it's not just because they think HK is cool, it's because to them you are more Chinese than foreigner since technically speaking you were born in China. Having said that, my wife tells me that many Chinese are actually envious of people who can speak Cantonese, or who sounds Cantonese when they speak putonghua because they like the Cantonese accent.
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| People here don't believe that I'm Chinese either. I've been interrogated by an acquaintance--she kept asking me if I was Korean as though I would break down and confess that yes, I was. People are also really rude about the fact that my Chinese isn't great and I speak with a distinctly different accent as my mother is from Taiwan. They'll tell an obvious looking foreigner who can only say "Ni hao" that his/her Chinese is wonderful, but what people will tell me is that my Chinese is crap. |
Another difference between us is my Chinese is too fluent. It's so fluent that people are more surprised at hearing me speak English than at hearing me speak Chinese. Your problem is that people see a Chinese face, born in China who can't speak Chinese. That's why some suspect that you are Korean or Japanese, and others ridicule you about your Chinese. People, especially employers, are usually more grateful and happy that I can speak Chinese fluently than my oddball accent (a mix of Cantonese/southern, northeastern, and Beijing accent). |
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