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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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I honestly didn't think that one would get beeped.  |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| I honestly didn't think that one would get beeped. |
The censor's very pricky about inappropriate words.  |
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mesomorph
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
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The kind that make you think about grammar and meaning. For example:
What is the difference between start and begin? |
There is no difference in either grammar or meaning between start and begin, only a possible difference in register, though even that is debateable.
I have never seen any for the CELTA. You can download a whole questionnaire for the DELTA or DipTESOL. |
There is a difeerence in connotation between start and begin.
Therefore there is a difference in meaning, due to the fact that meaning is only ever 'connotated'. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Couldn't it also just be a difference in collocation as the word sets that normally accompany start and begin might overlap in some cases, but differ in others?
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| I began the engine |
This doesn't sound very natural to me, a N. American speaker. I would prefer saying 'I began making the engine.' |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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There are plenty of cases where you can say 'start' and not 'begin', and possibly some cases where the opposite is true.
But for there to be a difference in meaning there would need to be cases where you can use both with different meanings or connotations? Are there any? |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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I think they were already trying to give that example with 'I start the engine' and 'I begin the engine'
I'll have to think on that, just woke up a few minutes ago and have been answering some student email.
Something my mother once said really rings true at times " A teacher's day never ends!". |
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TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
| Something my mother once said really rings true at times " A teacher's day never ends!". |
I feel like it sometimes never begins, or starts... |
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mesomorph
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
...
But for there to be a difference in meaning there would need to be cases where you can use both with different meanings or connotations? Are there any?... |
... 'start' and 'begin' the engine have different connotations ...
It is not possible to find words in the public domain which have a fixed meaning (words which are 100% synonymic) because the public domain has an infinite number of claimants whose perception wanders whimsically.
If we were to be speaking for example in a very isolated field such as the study of the 'Aristotelian Syllogistic Method' then we could find words which have for all practical intents and purposes (as far as studying the 'Aristotelian Syllogistic Method' is a practicable exercise) identical meaning, such as 'Analysis' and 'Deduction'.
However scholars are people too (NEVER! They cry) and at the end of the day, schisms of scholars studying the old 'Aristotelian Syllogistic Method', are no more than small bearded factions operating quietly within an overwhelmingly powerful tide of shifting public perception and its preposterously spellbinding media. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
.. 'start' and 'begin' the engine have different connotations ...
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No; there is one meaning for 'begin the engine', and two meanings for 'start the engine', one of which is a cognate of 'begin the engine'.
Incidentally we have all forgotten about 'commence'. |
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mesomorph
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
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.. 'start' and 'begin' the engine have different connotations ...
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No; there is one meaning for 'begin the engine', and two meanings for 'start the engine', one of which is a cognate of 'begin the engine'.
Incidentally we have all forgotten about 'commence'. |
Can you explain this to me more please? |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Back to the original question. How about looking at module one of the TKT? There's a sample paper available from the Cambridge ESOL site.
Back off the original question,
I've always wondered why we call the cerimony to end a level of education "commencement". |
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mesomorph
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| Quote: |
.. 'start' and 'begin' the engine have different connotations ...
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No; there is one meaning for 'begin the engine', and two meanings for 'start the engine', one of which is a cognate of 'begin the engine'.
Incidentally we have all forgotten about 'commence'. |
Sorry what I don't understand is how there is only one meaning for 'begin the engine', and two meanings for 'start the engine'.
Are we talking semantically or grammatically or both?
Surely if we are talking about meaning we are talking about semantics?
Are we then talking about what the words mean only in respect to their roles in the sentences' wider grammatical structure?
I am not a linguist I am a literature person, help! |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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I started the engine = a) I turned on the ignition b) I began to repair/assemble the engine
I began the engine = I began to repair/assemble the engine.
*I commenced the engine. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| mesomorph wrote: |
| Sorry what I don't understand is how there is only one meaning for 'begin the engine', and two meanings for 'start the engine'. |
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Red and white
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
I started the engine = a) I turned on the ignition b) I began to repair/assemble the engine
I began the engine = I began to repair/assemble the engine.
*I commenced the engine. |
Not sure about option b) for I started the engine. In that instance I'd be more inclined to say I started (work) on the engine.
And if I said 'I began the engine' I'd be implying I started constructing it from scratch, wouldn't I?
On a slightly related note, how much fun can you have with turn on and switch on?
A light can be turned on or switched on, but I tend to feel differently about myself. If I'm switched on, that's not necessarily because something turns me on. And completely different from having someone turn on me.
Do I try to explain why, or do I just tell my students that's how it is and they have to deal with it? |
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