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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| But if you're saying that no language school is worth working for, then aren't you cutting off a lot of FTs from the job market who are not presently suitable for, or perhaps just not interested in, university or K-12 positions? |
Are these a group of socialy deprived unemployed who are trying to eek out a living for the wife and 10 kids 
get real Pete - maybe its because these teaching organisations attract so many of these "not presently suitable types" here to pack into their low paid FT positions, that contributes to the feeling that conditions for FT's in general seem to be so depressed  |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Re: EF Shenzhen |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
| And you Roger and Clarkie that have NO EF EXPERIENCE whatsoever, �BE MY GUESTS� to participate in EF discussions as long as you wish. Forums are free, aren�t they? |
Vikdk has no experience working for this chain either. Interesting that you only mention the names of people who hold an opinion contrary to your own here. Seems that not having worked there is not the problem for you, it is the fact that we don't agree with you that you seem to have the problem with.
To my mind the above is very typical of these people who over generalize in a negative way on these forums. They try to latch onto every little thing in a desperate effort to try and prove their point - even when doing so they end up contradicting themselves. So much for wanting to expose the truth. More like wanting to perpetuate the myth!
| vikdk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But if you're saying that no language school is worth working for, then aren't you cutting off a lot of FTs from the job market who are not presently suitable for, or perhaps just not interested in, university or K-12 positions? |
Are these a group of socialy deprived unemployed who are trying to eek out a living for the wife and 10 kids
get real Pete - maybe its because these teaching organisations attract so many of these "not presently suitable types" here to pack into their low paid FT positions, that contributes to the feeling that conditions for FT's in general seem to be so depressed |
vikdk, you quoted it so I assume that you read it. It is a legitimate question so why not answer it?
You have been jumping all over EF even though you have never worked there and now is your chance to actually help people on this forum by suggesting an alternative. So we are looking for a chain school that pretty well guarantees that you will get paid, gives you training and support, curriculum and nice facilities, and good central city locations; but only requires you to work 20 hours a week. So vikdk where do you recommend people teach if not at EF? |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| But if you're saying that no language school is worth working for, then aren't you cutting off a lot of FTs from the job market who are not presently suitable for, or perhaps just not interested in, university or K-12 positions? |
kinda makes you think what is the purpose of the ESL business here in China - to teach English - or to give a large number of unqualified white people the chance to earn money while living in a foreign country while conveniently being labled not just a teacher - but foreign expert (of course always in tandem to somebody trying to generate a healthy profit from our graft).
My advice - firstly to those not presently suitable - help yourself get some teaching qualifications before you travel (after all isn't that an essential part of becoming suitable) and then maybe you never need to choose employment in these type of schools
To those who have no interest in other other types of teaching - well go for it, an d good luck - since all my hot air I'm ever going to generate is never going to cut you off from these type of jobs - but at least it may warn others of potential pitfalls |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: |
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So no answer to the question then vikdk.
Quite clearly you either do not know of other schools that offer a better deal (which kind of calls into question why you make such a fuss about EF's deal) or you are not willing to step up to the plate and actually name some schools that in your opinion offer better opportunities for teachers (possibly for fear that people may question these choices).
Either way it seems that there is little value in you continuing to post here. Unless of course you can come up with some information that might actually help people. |
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prof
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Location: Boston/China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
Either way it seems that there is little value in you continuing to post here. |
And what value do you add? Other than helping people make the correct choices by doing the opposite what you say to do.
Oh, I guess you also add humor with your ridiculous website that you need this forum to promote. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: EF Shenzhen |
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Right on, Prof. 
Cheers and beers |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| China.Pete made a good point. There are good language centers out there and it's unfair to class all of them as bad. It's also a great exaggeration to imply that all teachers who work at langauge schools are unqualified (I'm assuming this means no degree). I have no interest at all in teaching kids, I prefer to teach adults and I'm sure there are some teachers who feel the same. I get tired of some posters who feel they are superior because THEY teach in a public school. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| China.Pete made a good point. There are good language centers out there and it's unfair to class all of them as bad. It's also a great exaggeration to imply that all teachers who work at langauge schools are unqualified (I'm assuming this means no degree). |
sure there must be some good out there, somewhere - but then again that shouldn't stop people highlighting the stuff they consider bad  |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with you vikdk, people should tell the bad stuff. I just hate generalizations. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| I also don't hold much faith in generalisations - but if Chinese bosses start to beleive in a general pattern of FT's can be got on the cheap, because one large chain, in some instances, can make 'em work for 40 hours for a small amount of money compaired to the potential profit an FT run class can generate - then that generalisations of an FT will work for the proverbial peanut may start to affect all our standards of employment |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Voldermort wrote: |
| Roger wrote: |
| This is a patently misleading claim. No one works 40 hours a week; the number of hours includes office time that you can use as you deem fit. |
Sorry to dissagree with you roger, but as far as EF is concerned (at least those I have dealt with ), it is a genuine 40 hour job. 20 hours teaching and 20 hours office work. EF has an open door policy on placement tests. Prospective students are able to walk in off the srteet at any time and be interviewed by one of the FT's. For this reason alone, FT's must be on site, during those out of classroom hours.
Sure some branches may do things differently by scheduling the teachers hance cutting down that 20 hour wait. But the fact of the matter is, you must still have to perform office duty out of the classroom. |
Since I have been accused of not knowing what I am talking about in relation to EF, here are the cards:
Yes, I have never worked for any of their branches but I have a friend who worked there for one year. He has just quit and is leaving for home.
About six months into his part-time employment at EF he had a bad day when he realised they were not paying as much as he had thought. THey had promised him RMB 150 per hour; he then found out his pay was RMB 100 per hour because of all the idle time between two periods or two lessons that he was not being paid for.
You could say he had felt deceived, but as a matter of fact, he kept teaching there because of the good vibes he had with some of his colleagues and the DOS.
I appreciate this story won't change the mind of someone so negatively biased as Vikdk but to me, it is proof that your rewards come in more forms than just the pecuniary one.
I too would not like to have to spend breaks between lessons unpaid but available to my employer and students; I regard this as a blatant form of exploitation. However, this is not typical of EF - it is in fact a well-established modus operandi here in Guangzhou by all or most training centres. IT's akin to having split shifts but it's worse because you can't get your bum off the classroom chair because you will have to be back on time. As a parttimer he didn't have to spend office hours, though!
My friend was disappointed for a few days, then resigned himself to it and put up with it in good grace. It worked fine and he would still recommend EF.
And while he was a rookie teacher (I can say that as one of his colleagues) I want to add that he really grew on his job and was able to impart a few cogent observations to our Dean.
Perhaps the more vociferous and greedy teachers are also the less loyal ones? I am sure of one thing: the more a FT gets paid the higher his or her selfishness will push their salary expectations! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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when you read stuff like this -
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| THey had promised him RMB 150 per hour; he then found out his pay was RMB 100 per hour |
no wonder -
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| I appreciate this story won't change the mind of someone so negatively biased as Vikdk |
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| Perhaps the more vociferous and greedy teachers are also the less loyal ones |
going into my fourth year now at 3 of my kindies High wages and good conditions have certainly helped me stay "loyal" |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: EF Shenzhen |
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| There are good language centers out there and it's unfair to class all of them as bad. |
Normally, I would agree with you there, but in this instance I don�t. The franchisers of this chain (language centers) have proved incompetent, which has harmed many. Sure that there are some EF franchisees that know better what to do and �doing their own thing� doesn�t harm, however the risk is �allowed�, and what the franchise should stand for is not there. If those franchised centers went independently, they�d be �bashed� independently, wouldn�t they?
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Someone wrote:
Since I have been accused of not knowing what I am talking about in relation to EF�. |
You haven�t been �accused�. It�s the reality, isn�t it?
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The same �someone�:
Yes, I have never worked for any of their branches but I have a friend who worked there for one year. He has just quit and is leaving for home.
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And I have a �friend�, who worked for the White House. He quit too. .............................................
No disrespect to you. You can participate on any thread you wish. On some threads you provide excellent info, but on some others it�s rather �amusing�.
Peace to all of us
and
cheers and beers
_____________________________________________________________
Joining a bad group disregarding the facts and harmed ones is just like supporting the group |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
| going into my fourth year now at 3 of my kindies High wages and good conditions have certainly helped me stay "loyal" |
And it was good for you, vikdk, to put the adjective 'loyal' between quotation marks; what, pray, do YOU mean when you utter this word? 3 different jobs in 4 years? That's "loyalty" to you? |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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loyalty - i'd surely die for them Rog
At least they havn't told me to go after 2 years |
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