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Lobster



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice! I'll never go to Wuhan and just race through Pudong to the airport. Actually, now that I've learned about the many public dangers in China, I'm afraid to leave campus. Maybe I can hire the security guard to accompany me to the local supermarket. I thought that Nanjing was safe day or night, and now I find out that it's a hotbed of criminality. The job ad didn't mention that. It just said that "Nanjing has a history of over 2000 years." My university certainly has buildings with a history of over 2000 years.

RED
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Laoshi1950



Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 198
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Wuhan dangerous? Not in my experience anyway!

I have lived and worked in Wuhan for two years and I have always felt safe in the city.

I am returning to Wuhan after the Summer holidays to work for a third year.
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klaus



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
is there anyone who can claim a Dip Ed or B.Ed from a reputable university presently teaching in China and reading this board


What possible relevance would holding a Dip. Ed or a B. Ed have for anyone wishing to teach English language? There is absolutely nothing in either of these courses that would even remotely prepare anyone to engage in English language pedagogy.
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danielb



Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, why would you need a B.Ed. or Dip.Ed. to teach at a university?
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prof



Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Location: Boston/China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laoshi1950 wrote:
Very Happy Wuhan dangerous? Not in my experience anyway!

I have lived and worked in Wuhan for two years and I have always felt safe in the city.

I am returning to Wuhan after the Summer holidays to work for a third year.

Perhaps I had a unique experience there and Wuhan isn't really that dangerous.

I was invited by a fellow teacher's foreign brother-in-law to Wuhan. Met up with some very nasty types near the family home.

It was a bad experience. But the money judging the speech contest there made up for it.
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Shan-Shan



Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even without a BEd or Diploma in Education, I certainly feel that one who possesses an educational background which required close examination of language, a substantial TESL qualification i.e., where theories of language acquisition, teaching, courses in Applied Linguistics and a practicum were all involved, a person would be qualified for language teaching. Maybe not teaching for Mathematics or Social Studies, but certainly able to teach English. My worst language teachers all had BEds (in high school and elementary school); the best actually happened to have backgrounds in language/literature with training in language teaching.

Another factor which seems to go unnoticed in many, though not all, discussions here is the element of imagination. A teacher needs to be creative, to get students engaged in the language as users, and not mere spectators of English squirming on a series of pins attached to the blackboard. Also, teachers need to constantly be assessing themselves, their methods, and learning an array of approaches to help students through the language acquisition process at every stage. This is where humbleness is a great asset; that is, learning from those who are doing something right where you might be doing something not quite right. By talking with other teachers, and reading articles written by those in the field of TESL has been of greater benefit to my teaching than any of the courses I took on language teaching itself. The element of experience, trial and error in the classroom, has always been a part of those discussions I've had with other FTs. A frequent realization in those talks has been that what looks good on paper doesn't always translate well in the classroom.

If students are becoming able communicators in one's class, and enjoying the process while constantly improving their ability to communicate, a teacher is doing something right, regardless of the acronym after his/her name.
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when it comes to teaching small children then a lot of specialised pedagogical knowledge is required if a teacher actually wants to understand and reflect upon what their doing - or trying to do - in the chinese classroom. But this type of teaching is usually asighned to those who have the least experience and qualification. The result being - a kind of educational hit and miss affair - where just holding out on these jobs for the length of the contract - you know, before moving on to the next tourist destination - soon becomes far more important than any serious or professional notions of teaching standards. Which, of course, leaves this side of teaching very vunerable to McCrap species of schools who set themselves up as stepping stones of employment for those short term traveling FT minstrels who are looking for that convenience of work with very few responsibilities Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tucked away in your little square box, how would you know what type of person does these courses? Maybe u should go home, I hear the Canadian verson of T&T is looking for facilitators for their courses? A real job might just bring about some tolerance and respect for your fellow human beings. If your commentary suggested that a particular course should have accreditation or international recognition it might have some creedence.

i did this so-called "course" with teach and travel in ottawa 5 years ago. it was the biggest waste of money i will ever admit to having been lured into. just let me say that anyone who thinks they'll go to teach and travel.CON and learn much or anything about teaching will be sorely disappointed.

by the way, teach and travel.CON and its founder/owner "professor" peter appleton have been forced into hiding from what i've heard. and into more than one name change and change of location. they probably (for safety reasons) operate out of a post office box somewhere now Very Happy

7969
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TEAM_PAPUA



Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1679
Location: HOLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject: * Reply with quote

Great post - there is nothing wrong with telling it like it is. China is a toilet and the people behave like animals, but if you like this it's fine. Just don't expect the romantic imagery you see in the movies, or the BS you watch on the Chinese tv.

China is horrible but it is one hell of an experience, one that you'll never forget Shocked

I miss the frozen black spit on the pavements in the winter, and the stinking fat half naked guys shouting in the restaurants in the summer...the 5000 years of history (surely the age of Neanderthal was more than 5000 years ago?). I miss the yellow teeth, the hairy armpits, the nylon socks, the constant repetition of moronic questions, the brown suits, the smell of the sewers, the insane month long firework bonanza, the pushing and shoving, the constant renovating of neighbors apartments, the staring and the laughing, and most of all CCTV9!

However, I must say that I always felt safe in China (apart from when I needed to see a doctor). I used to go out late at night to some very weird and wonderful places & never felt threatened.

Quote:
What possible relevance would holding a Dip. Ed or a B. Ed have for anyone wishing to teach English language?


...compared to someone who has not been to university? Or compared to the majority 'burger flippers' and 'barstaff' now teaching in China? I would think a university degree should be the first thing to have, and what better than a degree in education?

What a stupid comment.
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ColinA



Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 262

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: * Reply with quote

TEAM_PAPUA wrote:
Great post - there is nothing wrong with telling it like it is. China is a toilet and the people behave like animals, but if you like this it's fine. Just don't expect the romantic imagery you see in the movies, or the BS you watch on the Chinese tv.

China is horrible but it is one hell of an experience, one that you'll never forget Shocked

Thanks for the vote of confidence, TEAM_PAPUA, but if I put it so bluntly, I would have been howled down by all the local yokels who call it a permanent home.

Nevertheless, I was hoping in this post, to give a balanced view for would-be ESL teachers of what they are likely to find in China.

Maybe one poster who reckons a teaching qualification is of no use in China may have a point. Then again, he probably reckons doctors dont need any genuine qualifications to practise medicine either? I dare say for a country that has embraced a counterfeit culture like no other, one learns to distrust just about everything.

By the way, I hear that 90% of Yamaha motorcycles on China's roads are actually fakes (I wonder if there is a comparison to be made with the standard of FT's who claim laoshi status. Anyway, who really cares who does what and how in an ESL classroom in China?
__________________________________________________________
I have never let my teaching interfere with my education. .
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klaus



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hilarious. two people who know next to nothing about the pedagogical apects of language teaching and next to nothing about china save for the shallow culturally retarded opinions they formed as a result of a brief and obviously fairly sedentary fling here they did once agree to agree on the veracity of each others ridiculous opinions. useful stuff.

if anything china is a great test of certain facets of a persons character. whether you like it or not and whether you stay or not is entirely a personal matter and not a valid indicator of success in the examination one undergoes here, but certainly the kind of incessant self indulgent whining and juvenile malevolance masquerading as advice one often finds on display here and elsewhere marks those responsible for the aforesaid as at best struggling on the wrong side of a passing grade in this regard.
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Lobster



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Cod, klaus! You certainly can be eloquent when you set your mind to it. That was a wonderful post! Shocked

RED
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

klaus wrote:
What possible relevance would holding a Dip. Ed or a B. Ed have for anyone wishing to teach English language? There is absolutely nothing in either of these courses that would even remotely prepare anyone to engage in English language pedagogy.

Once again "klaus" makes a hilariously uninformed generalisation about academic training. He really must learn to be more careful in his writing.

Example: Here are only some of the subjects required of students obtaining a B. Ed. (English concentration) from the University of Wisconsin:

309 Composition for English Teachers, 3 cr*
324 Structure of English, 3 cr (students are encouraged to take this course as early as possible)
Applied English Linguistics, 3 cr (in order of preference) 325, 323, 331, 336, 332
Curric 269 Practicum in Secondary School English, 3 cr
Curric 396 Teaching of English, 3 cr
Curric 472 Student Teaching of English in the Middle School, 6-12 cr
OR
Curric 496 Student Teaching of English in the High School, 6-12 cr
Curric 596 Advanced Practice in Teaching English in Secondary Schools, 3 cr
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ColinA



Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 262

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry_Cowell wrote:
klaus wrote:
What possible relevance would holding a Dip. Ed or a B. Ed have for anyone wishing to teach English language? There is absolutely nothing in either of these courses that would even remotely prepare anyone to engage in English language pedagogy.

Once again "klaus" makes a hilariously uninformed generalisation about academic training. He really must learn to be more careful in his writing.

Example: Here are only some of the subjects required of students obtaining a B. Ed. (English concentration) from the University of Wisconsin:


Unfortunately Henry, I have to lean somewhat towards Kluas opinion, here. Teaching degrees and experience have little weighing in China unlike the West where they are compulsory. Anyone who speaks English with a bit of enthusiasm and imagination will likely satisfy the "stringent" requirements of China's ESL classroom.

Quote:
So this is the statement I'd like you to respond to. Like a scorpion in a ring of fire, you'd prefer to sting yourself to death instead of fighting your way out with minor burns. RED


tHANKFULLY this piece of trite has escaped me up to now. What are you on about man? I know there are several posters who wait to be baited by my next utterance but do your contributions really invite comment and more importantly does anyone understand the silly little egocentric mind games that you get off on? I suggest you play whatever takes your fancy in the privacy of your own little square box. I have infinitely more important things to amuse me than your mind games.
_________________________________________________________
Suffice to say, wisdom and intelligence have little in common.
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

klaus wrote:
What possible relevance would holding a Dip. Ed or a B. Ed have for anyone wishing to teach English language? There is absolutely nothing in either of these courses that would even remotely prepare anyone to engage in English language pedagogy.

Evidently, ColinA's reading skills are as poor as klaus's writing skills. No wonder they are both stuck in China! Wink
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