Job Discussion Forums

[vikdk]

KES why the off-topic posting - plenty of on-topic stuff to have a go at - what about taking a bite on perceived ethical questions with regard to responsible teaching practice and the demands of the McChain employer - that little conundrum often leads to an FT sacking or two. You could even pick me up on bad spelling or grammar if you wanted to

[cj750]

[adamsmith]

I have noticed many people posting on different forums asking "what kind of teaching degree did a person hold?" My question is do you expect everyone who teaches to hold a teaching degree? During your own education how many of your instructors at university actually held a teaching degree? A post graduate degree also qualifies a person to be an instructor in that field. Now I realize that not everyone here has any of these requirements but people should also remember that experience is also a good teacher. Combined with the education and experience a person can be quite professional and still work in a training center where the qualifications can be relaxed in comparison to a university where higher qualifications are needed.

[no_exit]

[cj750]

My question is do you expect everyone who teaches to hold a teaching degree? During your own education how many of your instructors at university actually held a teaching degree?

The question is not what I expect but what the Chinese institution/parents expects...

But to often I am presented with credentials of a degree as if it and it alone will qualify someone for a teaching post.....sorry, I just don't buy it...

and then this...

A post graduate degree also qualifies a person to be an instructor in that field.

If that field of instruction is also the field that the professor is teaching ....

then ok..but few professors have a degree in ESL that are teaching in EF style schools..and if my druthers were honored..they would also have some practical experience...

My point here is that the individual school has the right to determine if some one is qualified and if they meet their expectations. Employees who have been fired do not get to second guess the motivations of qualification requirements.

[KES]

[vikdk]

the OP didn't even mention EF (nor have I) - but I suppose thinking of this as another nice "the baddies against EF thread" must make it simpler for some posters to understand (shizer just reread that opening post - there was an McEF in the last line - please spank me severly )

Anways KES - lets dumb my argument down a bit for you so maybe I can get an on-topic response from you.

now lets call my fictional subject K
K wants to work as an FT China - but no degree or real practical experience in working in ESL.
K is worried by that lack of experience but reads on the internet that the right character and a knowledge of English are all that is neccessary for this job.
K finds a job over the internet with a chain called McExcellent - he's so proud he can tell family and friends that he's a teacher
K gets to China - is treated well - appartment, visa, and as time goes on is paid roughly on time but allways with some mysterious deduction of about 100-200quai.
As the new boy K has to go to kindergartens and is also expected to teach tired uninterested small children in evenings and weekends - K has a long list of sentences words and songs he is supposed to teach - but this work is certainly harder than he ever expected - infact teaching a classroom of unrulely pre-schoolers becomes a positivly daunting task!!!
K goes to the boss - he asks for older students - but the boss says he has to put his most experienced FT's in these jobs, since those older folk can tell the difference between what are good and bad lessons - he tells K to just jump around teach those sentences, go over the names of fruit and animals and sing songs - if the kids are missbehaving let the Chinese teachers deal with that.
K sees some rather nasty stuff - crying kids bodily draged into corners and made to sit there until quiet, rows of passive faces being pushed to shout louder and louder those unintelligable sentences and uninterested tired kids on a saturday/sunday morning who no way want to enter his classroom, but are pushed through the door by anxious parents who have been told that K is a foreign teaching expert - after all he has that expert licence.
K starts to feel uneasy about all this stuff - he wants to get some extra materials - paper, pens, balls that kind of stuff - you know the kinda things todlers like back-home - but he's told by the boss that the company doesn't supply that - we just get the parents to buy that nice "text book" with the sentences and the stickers - but K is wellcome to buy the material himself if wants to.
Then K complains over a perticularly nasty incident when he sees a teacher hit a 4 year old over the head with a chopstick - K is told in no uncertain terms by the boss this is none of his bussiness and as long as no parents complain, all is fine.
K gets dispondent - he aint enjoying himself, the kids are either increasingly bored or more difficult to control - and what does he teach after fruit, animals and parts of the body? K starts to lack motivation for the job - comes late to some evening and weekend lessons, and really can't be bothered to make any special preperations for new classes.
Now the boss - who has never ever seen one of K's lessons calls him into the office and says he's a bad teacher. when K asks what's a good teacher is, he's told its one who turns up on time and does what he's told. K has a mental picture of a performing monkey flash up in his head - that naive pride of becoming a teacher suddenly evaporates into the smoggy skies of K's adopted Chinatown.
Today is K's early morning sunday lesson - an hour of 40 4-6 year olds - he's thought of doing fruit again - but this is the third time so he feels a real fraud - he also can't stand watching that assistant constantly screaming kids out when they try to whisper something to each other - it makes him fell such a bully. K is starting to realise that their is a lot more to this job than just speeking English and having a good character - a discovery that's really starting make him feel less, rather than more, confident as the months of this contract roll bye. And on top of this the boss has also threatened him that a bad attitude with regard to time keeping can result in the sack
K rolls over and sends himself to sleep thinking over what a bum deal him and those kids are getting - he aint got the stomach for this no longer - this is the time for change - lets see if that boss will sack him, because if nothing happens with this situation then he isn't prepaired stay any longer.

What you reckon on that guy KES - he got everthying he was promissed by the employer, so maybe he didn't have the backbone to stick that job out (you know the naivity of expecting education to be a fun business ) Or maybe he just felt the set-up was so wrong (even if he didn't have a grounding in the ethical and pedagogical argumentation that would describe his type of dilema) - badge of honour stuff. Do you think he would have benefitted from a thread topic like this, which discussed the reality of what your getting youself into in taking a job here - and I'm not just talking about the practicalities of living - but the moral ethical and psychological implications of an FT job - especially with those companies which focus so much effort on economic gain as opposed to educational excellence? Or am i just wasting my time and should follow your fine example and stick to writing anti-EG posts. Any comments - or is this off-topic

[adamsmith]

Wow Vikdk, If that is a prime example of teaching at a chain at a chain school in this country - and I use teaching as a word to replace the term babysitter, then I am glad that AI have never taken a position at one of these schools. If I had I would have walked out the first day. Those type of conditions are intolerable. My first job in Korea was very similiar - I had expected a very different atmosphere but when I arrived and walked into my first class i faced something similiar - I finished the first class - went to my apartment and got my suitcases and left for a proper job. These are not schools but they should more aptly be called day care centers.
These schools would be better of hiring nannies who speak english - and not someone who is trying to have some experience in teaching.

[vikdk]

My post of course only represents a small aspect of McChain teaching work in china - and as most posters would point out most chains cater for all ages - indeed I would be the first to admit that the fictional situation I created is a rather crude generalisation of what can happen out here, since there of course exists situations where the FT's are supported and helped in their bid to create a caring learning environment (one which can also be profitable for the employer). But the point is - like you adamsmith - so many of us who have worked in this game recognise so well so many of the situations my little story threw up - the reality of working as an FT - and most importantly, the way it feels on you when you see the product some of the employers out here are all too willing for you to hand out to their customers. Adamsmith decided to leave straight away when he encountered something similar - K is so f'ed off with the situation he doesn't realy care if he gets the sack - but don't worry big boss there are plenty of other willing K's ready to fill that empty spot - well at least untill you've burnt them out as well. So a thread on getting the sack could be well served with a post or two on how we as FT's often get so dillusioned with our work, and how this situation could result in us either being fired or breaking contract and doing a runner - we can even talk about why this job can never be fully catered for by the qualification of being a white English speaker and having a good (maybe even responsible) personality, since that good personality could well be described as a liability in those certain corners, which far more favour the turning of the blind-eye approach

[no_exit]

vik, If EF is supposed to be the chain school in question, then that's so far off base that I don't even know where to begin.

You know, there are schools like those you describe, and although I've never worked for one, but I know they exist. It is, however, completely misleading to confuse those places with places like EF (which were the primary focus of discussion here, not those farming schools, were they not?). I've got nothing against exposing bad conditions for what they are, but if you're going after EF-type schools in one breath and then writing a description like this in the next, well it is just a bit like comparing apples to oranges, isn't it? What kind of school is it exactly that have you been bashing so passionately for the past 10+ pages, this kind of thing, or EF? Not the same at all.

For the record, some organizations send you out to Chinese public schools, where you are expected to abide by Chinese public school standards, which are often vague, arbitrary, and frustrating. You might find yourself travelling several hours a day to get to your location, you might find yourself not getting paid on time, and possibly working illegally. You might see some ugly aspects of Chinese education. Your boss will likely be Chinese and unsympathetic. You might be given unreasonable demands and be punished if you don't meet them. These jobs are generally fairly bottom of the barrel, I'd agree.

But ... that's not EF. Just for the record. I'm confused as to why this whole thing came into a thread that was blatantly about EF before. Now who's off-topic?

[TrekleaderTim]

Kudos to Mr. Adam Smith who writes well and educates at the same time. It's pretty hard for new and younger teachers when they get jammed in difficult situations. Herein lies the rub....teaching is also a political job....a job which must be mastered when working in unfamilar environments. Younger folks with a little less life experience usually take things a little too much to heart. I would suggest that if a teacher has some issues with the chain schools, he or she should get some real world business experience and tutor privates. Pays very well!!!

[Malsol]

[vikdk]

[OGFT]

Sounds as if your last post is for a owner/manager awareness as to the pearls of hiring young spoiled non-educated lots to do a job that calls for strength, patience, office political know how and stick too it ness.

Quit crying...a job is a job and if you take the job..stick it out and do the best you can...

Why whine on about the chain schools, if you get nice housing and a paycheck..just do your job...

[englishgibson]

Yeah!
Some go with the flow, don't they?

Cheers and beers