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My 2 1/2 Years at Hess
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teflmonkey

Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 10

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject:

This is certainly a late reply to this thread... but I have to butt in. Out of the 50-odd folks from my Hess training group, the best review I have received has been "so-so." There are folks who don't mind their time at Hess. But it seems the vast majority of us are complaining. Maybe not all of us are complaining up the chain (perhaps wisest in the long run), but we certainly complain amongst ourselves. The people with the best Hess experiences seem to be those who ended up at branches in smaller towns. The people in the Big Three largely appear to have some major complaints. A few have left, many more are planning on leaving. And it's job satisfaction issues, not "oh I can't live in Taiwan." I am not by any means saying Hess is an inviable option for some, but it appears from my perspective to be a poor choice for many.

clark.w.griswald

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject:

teflmonkey what you write above is true of probably every single employer I have ever worked for both here and back home. Employees complain about their jobs and the boss. That is just a part of work life. It does not mean that the employer is automatically in the wrong. Hess is not perfect and I am sure that some of the complaints that you refer to where legitimate while others were more personal issues. I am pretty confident that if you listed the sorts of complaints that you are referring to here that you would find that most users here would report the same problems at non-Hess schools also. The noticeable thing about Hess is the lack of serious problems reported by teachers such as non-payment of wages etc.

StayingPower

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 252

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:12 am Post subject:

clark.w.griswald wrote:

teflmonkey what you write above is true of probably every single employer I have ever worked for both here and back home.

Employees complain about their jobs and the boss. That is just a part of work life. It does not mean that the employer is automatically in the wrong.

Hess is not perfect and I am sure that some of the complaints that you refer to where legitimate while others were more personal issues.

I am pretty confident that if you listed the sorts of complaints that you are referring to here that you would find that most users here would report the same problems at non-Hess schools also.

The noticeable thing about Hess is the lack of serious problems reported by teachers such as non-payment of wages etc.

I strongly disagree. It's not "just a part of work life." It's part of working for jobs that have a high turn-over rate, like Walmart, etc., which indicates that employee 'fair and decent' treatment is lacking, but which the companies can afford to overlook.

To compare it with any job back home doesn't do this justice either, since people have signed a contract with HESS but find there's a lot left out inbetween such legalise that pretty much leaves them powerless.

We're more or less talking about something more corrupt so don't try to smoothe it over with specious reasoning.

HESS has to wake up and smell the bullpoop.

clark.w.griswald

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:55 am Post subject:

StayingPower wrote:

It's not "just a part of work life." It's part of working for jobs that have a high turn-over rate, like Walmart, etc., which indicates that employee 'fair and decent' treatment is lacking, but which the companies can afford to overlook.

Out of curiosity StayingPower did you work for any other schools in Taiwan other than Hess? If not then how can you suggest that the Hess deal is worse than others?

You obviously do not like Hess but that does not make them a bad employer. In fact they are a comparatively good employer if you look at other schools in Taiwan really!

StayingPower wrote:

To compare it with any job back home doesn't do this justice either, since people have signed a contract with HESS but find there's a lot left out inbetween such legalise that pretty much leaves them powerless.

I think that it is a fair comparison to make as your concept of what constitutes good and fair work conditions is based upon your pre-conceptions from back home. This last post is evidence of exactly this fact.

Employment contracts are standard here in Taiwan for foreign English teachers and they are in fact a legal requirement. You can't get a work permit without a signed contract! So any suggestion that a contract is unfairly restrictive is based upon comparisons to back home not here in Taiwan.

As far as your suggestion that contract 'legalise' puts the teacher at a disadvantage well if you believe that then don't sign the contract in the first place. You don't have to work at Hess do you?! Personally though a HESS contract is not much different to any other employment contract with one major exception. At least at Hess the employer follows the contract which can't be said of some other schools in Taiwan.

Despite your months of trying to rubbish the Hess name I am still to see any real valid complaint from you about them.

Darotker

Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject:

Clark, I've made my views about my experience at HESS clear already, so I don't want to get too repetitive, so I'll try and keep this brief. I've read a lot of your posts and obviously respect your knowledge of the ESL market.
However, I think your defense of HESS shows even more clearly how poor a chain school they really are.

Quote:

Hess is not perfect and I am sure that some of the complaints that you refer to where legitimate while others were more personal issues.

I am pretty confident that if you listed the sorts of complaints that you are referring to here that you would find that most users here would report the same problems at non-Hess schools also.

The noticeable thing about Hess is the lack of serious problems reported by teachers such as non-payment of wages etc.

Clark, I agree with that you wrote above. That does apply to most jobs and people do like to complain. However, HESS has a lot more problems than that. What about the fact that more than 50% of my training class didn't finish their contract? What about how horrible the schedules are with split shifts and Saturday work? What about how a LOT of HESS teachers work more than 32 hours a week? Isn't that illegal?

I agree with your premise: HESS is an honest Company and they always paid me on time and everyone I know on time. However, don't MOST schools do that? That should be the basic, bare minimum, I think. That's not a reason they are a good school.

The point is that most people who work there don't leave with positive feelings.

I also think it's interesting how Andrew Tiffany chooses to selectively post on this forum. He chooses certain threads to post on, which provide HESS with good publicity. However, when tough questions are asked about HESS, he doesn't answer. Why bother posting at all?

Andrew is a big laughing stock in HESS anyway, along with the rest of their Head Office. He's a really nice, genuine guy from everything I hear. But, he's a nice guy in the way a senile grandfather with Alzheimer's is a nice guy. You like him, but you can't respect him because he doesn't actually do anything. We all used to have a great time having a laugh at the HESS head office over a bunch of beers!! [/quote]

clark.w.griswald

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:42 am Post subject:

Darotker thanks for the specific comments you have made. Let me give you my view on what you have written.

Darotker wrote:

What about the fact that more than 50% of my training class didn't finish their contract?

To me the answer to that is clear but it requires a bit more information than what you have provided here.

How many of those teachers who left were first timers to Taiwan (or even first timers overseas)? Probably a majority I would think.

How many of those teachers who left Hess also left Taiwan? At least half would be my guess.

Of those who did remain in Taiwan, how many were completely happy, or even comparatively happier in their second job? Again perhaps half.

So we are really talking about a very low number of people who leave Hess early and find that there are better jobs elsewhere.

So what�s my point? Well my point is that in my opinion the biggest thorn in Hess�s side is the fact they almost exclusively employ younger teachers without much experience and teachers from abroad. So you end up with a group of people � some who will complain about the work because they have trouble doing it, and others that will complain about the country and blame this upon the easiest of targets their employer. This is why we see a wealth of complaints about Hess but no real specific information about these complaints.

Darotker wrote:

What about how horrible the schedules are with split shifts and Saturday work?

Did you agree to sign a contract that included Saturday work? If so why did you sign if you didn�t agree with it. This is one of the recurring themes that I see with Hess complainants once they get here and find that other teachers in other schools have �better� deals these teachers seem to forget all of the benefits that Hess has already offered!

Darotker wrote:

What about how a LOT of HESS teachers work more than 32 hours a week? Isn't that illegal?

No it is not illegal. Once again though, was the work commitment outlined in your employment contract? If so then why did you sign if you did not want to work that many hours?

Darotker wrote:

I agree with your premise: HESS is an honest Company and they always paid me on time and everyone I know on time. However, don't MOST schools do that? That should be the basic, bare minimum, I think. That's not a reason they are a good school.

I don�t disagree that getting what you earn on time every time should be a bare requirement and not a special attribute of a school � but unfortunately it is not. I don�t personally believe that most schools are dishonest, but most are not as organized as Hess in regards to visas, taxes, and payments. So while in Hess everything is generally sorted out for the teacher with only the odd minor error or annoyance, the same cannot be said for most other schools. Late payments, miss payments, incorrect tax deductions, no tax deductions, late visas, no visas, unpaid bonuses, fines for almost everything, are just some of the problems that Hess pretty well avoids.

Darotker wrote:

The point is that most people who work there don't leave with positive feelings.

I don�t agree that it is �most� but would certainly not disagree that some people do leave Hess with less than positive feelings. Now how much of that negativity is directly related to Hess and how much of it is related to other issues but directed at Hess?

Darotker wrote:

I also think it's interesting how Andrew Tiffany chooses to selectively post on this forum. He chooses certain threads to post on, which provide HESS with good publicity. However, when tough questions are asked about HESS, he doesn't answer. Why bother posting at all?

Can you point out some of these tough questions that went unanswered? I don�t know Andrew but from his posts here he seems to me to be pretty honest and realistic.

Darotker wrote:

Andrew is a big laughing stock in HESS anyway, along with the rest of their Head Office. He's a really nice, genuine guy from everything I hear. But, he's a nice guy in the way a senile grandfather with Alzheimer's is a nice guy. You like him, but you can't respect him because he doesn't actually do anything. We all used to have a great time having a laugh at the HESS head office over a bunch of beers!!

Perhaps it is this kind of negative attitude that has aided the formation of your negative views about Hess. It is sometimes hard to see the forest through all of the trees as they say. I think that your personal comments above about Andrew were uncalled for and just serve to discredit your other opinions about Hess.

Ultimately though, there are plenty of other schools in Taiwan that you could have chosen. Why did you choose Hess?

Darotker

Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:07 am Post subject:

clark.w.griswald wrote:

Darotker thanks for the specific comments you have made. Let me give you my view on what you have written.

Darotker wrote:

What about the fact that more than 50% of my training class didn't finish their contract?

Clark, for someone who asks for (fairly) a lot of specific comments, that was a LOT of generalization and conjecture. Neither of us can answer all of the questions above and tell you specific numbers on how many people at HESS complete their contract. All I can say is that most of the people in my training class didn't complete their contract. I think that says a lot about the Company. I don't care what age their teachers are

Also, if they do hire mostly people straight out of school, what does that say about HESS? Are they trying to trick young and naive people into teaching for them? Why not hire older and more experienced teachers?

I know you might say "That's Taiwan". As the largest chain school in Taiwan, HESS helps to perpetuate that lack of quality. They have to take some responsibility in that.

Clark, it's amazing to me that you can make all of your above points without also saying, "Yes, when more than 50% of people leave, that seems bad and there is likely something wrong with that." I think that serves to discredit you as you are just blindly defending HESS. It's obvious to any reader that so many people leaving is a bad thing. And you HAVE to say to yourself, "Could that be me!?"

Darotker wrote:

What about how horrible the schedules are with split shifts and Saturday work?

clark.w.griswald wrote:

Of course we all agreed to it and it's in the contract. I never said we didn't agree to it. I said it's a reason not to work there. Who wants to work Mon-Fri from 9am-12pm and from 4pm-10pm and THEN also work on Saturday. Yes, HESS is honest about this. My point was telling people it's a downside of working there. I'm not sure I see your point above. Are you saying it's a good thing to work that type of schedule?

Darotker wrote:

What about how a LOT of HESS teachers work more than 32 hours a week? Isn't that illegal?

clark.w.griswald wrote:

No it is not illegal. Once again though, was the work commitment outlined in your employment contract? If so then why did you sign if you did not want to work that many hours?

I know you are an expert on these things and know a lot more than me, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I read an article in the Taipei Times that the CLA (or MOE?) changed the law. The new law was that FTs can't work more than 32 teaching hours a week. The article said the government felt working more would affect the quality of teaching. HESS often has teachers work that much. Am I wrong about this law? I'm pretty sure it is correct. And HESS can't make someone sign a contract that is illegal.

What about the fact that HESS has illegal Kindergatens? I know it's the norm in Taiwan, but it's worth mentioning.

Darotker wrote:

clark.w.griswald wrote:

I can't speak for all other schools, but it's really sad if it's true that just paying on time is such a huge plus in Hess' favor. My experience on the ground, meeting a lot of other people, tells me that there are a lot of other people at other schools who are paid on time and have a much better experience than those at HESS. It seems you agree with that when you say that most schools are honest.

I think you almost prove the point when the only positive about HESS you can come up with is that they pay on time.

Darotker wrote:

The point is that most people who work there don't leave with positive feelings.

clark.w.griswald wrote:

Yes, we are both just guessing there. However, I can tell you from experience that most people I know were unhappy working at HESS. In fact, I can't think of even ONE person who was VERY happy working at HESS. A lot of other people have said this on this and other boards. Doesn't that say anything to you?

Darotker wrote:

clark.w.griswald wrote:

Can you point out some of these tough questions that went unanswered? I don�t know Andrew but from his posts here he seems to me to be pretty honest and realistic.

Wow, I think there have been a ton of tough questions posted here. They relate to HESS' working conditions, salary, the amount of people breaking contract, putting workers in illegal conditions, lack of support from head office, his thoughts on their teaching approach.

There have been a ton of tough questions about HESS here which I think would warrant an answer as it directly relates to HESS. Instead he answers a question about visas just to get the HESS signature in a thread for publicity. Doesn't that seem a bit strange to you when there is a HESS thread right beneath it?

Darotker wrote:

clark.w.griswald wrote:

In reading the above again, it does sound a bit harsher than I meant it to be. I didn't mean it as a personal attack. I simply meant that the Head Office doesn't deal with problems, Andrew included. After training, you are pretty much on your own. They don't really help with anything. That's the way teachers feel. They feel unsupported. In that sense, my analogy is accurate. We did used to have a big laugh about all of them!

And another thing: If Andrew chooses to post here as HESS, using HESS as his signature, then he opens himself up to questions about HESS. If he wants to post here as an individual, then he is welcome to do so. Then, it would be wrong to confront him about HESS, I agree. However, by using this forum to advertise for HESS, he also opens himself up to questions about his Company. That is completely fair on my part.

Quote:

Ultimately though, there are plenty of other schools in Taiwan that you could have chosen. Why did you choose Hess?

I've said before that if someone wants to have their hand held and use a very, very strict and bland curriculum, that HESS is a fine place to go. As we have both said, they are an honest Company. They pretty much hire anyone, so if you want to work there, you will have a job!

I think I fell for their flashy website and advertisements everywhere. We've actually gotten off the topic here and I never wanted to get into so many specifics. although, I suppose it's helpful for people to read through.

My point is just that I think there are a LOT of better options than HESS. I think I've given ample reason for why I feel that way, whether you agree or not.

BigWally

Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:15 am Post subject:

Darotker wrote:

I agree that there is something to be gleaned from the fact that many teachers don't complete their contracts, but what is it? I think that age/experience does play an important role. (See below)

Darotker wrote:

Also, if they do hire mostly people straight out of school, what does that say about HESS? Are they trying to trick young and naive people into teaching for them? Why not hire older and more experienced teachers?

I don't think HESS' goal is to "trick" young people, but simply HESS is going to be able to do the majority of their hiring from people who are still a) overseas, looking for work via internet b) people who are looking for a "soft-landing" in Taiwan c) people who are scared to come over and look for a job in a foreign country, where they don't speak the language, and just want piece of mind that everything will be taken care of for them.

Once many of these people are here, and become acclimatized to Taiwan, they start to realize that maybe, there are better things out there, and with that 2 month probationary period, you have an easy out of your contract to go to a "better place". (Just ask StayingPower about this)

The older, more experienced teachers aren't looking for this. I know that I've been here almost a year now, and nothing that HESS offers appeals to me. Also, I know that there are better schools as far as pay, hours, workload, etc. out there, so why would I go an apply at HESS at this point?

Darotker wrote:

I know you might say "That's Taiwan". As the largest chain school in Taiwan, HESS helps to perpetuate that lack of quality. They have to take some responsibility in that.

I agree with you here from a teachers point of view, but do the parents and students see HESS as having a lack of quality? The parents see a school that has a set curriculum, so they know where their money is going. Its a well known school, and I'm sure many students have attended HESS in the past, and will continue to. Remember, we are just the foreign hired help, and the reputation that HESS has among the Taiwanese is the more important one.

Darotker wrote:

Clark, it's amazing to me that you can make all of your above points without also saying, "Yes, when more than 50% of people leave, that seems bad and there is likely something wrong with that." I think that serves to discredit you as you are just blindly defending HESS. It's obvious to any reader that so many people leaving is a bad thing. And you HAVE to say to yourself, "Could that be me!?"

After reading Clark's messages for over a year now, I've come to realize he's not one who "blindly defends" anything. He's one of the least biased people on the board, and this seems like an attack on his character.

I think that the fact that 50% of people that leave, are the ones that I mentioned earlier. The ones who get here, and realize there are better jobs out there. Or, the ones who realize Taiwan is not for them. Odds are the people who are most on the fence/fearful about moving to Taiwan, are the ones who would sign up with an organization like HESS in the first place.

I would consider some of this group to be "destined" to leave in the first place. You know those people who step off the plane, and say "I CAN'T BREATHE THIS AIR FOR A YEAR. F*%& THIS!!" Turn around and get back on the plane and go home. I personally know 1 person who did this.

Darotker wrote:

I agree with you here Darotker, to me the HESS schedule isn't that great. I looked at HESS when I was looking for jobs here, and I saw the Sat. work, and ran for the hills. Forget that!

But, on the other hand, there are people out there who know that there are good private tutoring jobs to be had between 12pm-4pm, during the week, when one can easily be charging upwards of $750/hr for private lessons, thus supplementing their income.

I don't thing a work schedule can be generalized as good or bad for all people, some people like to work a lot, and HESS would probably be a good fit for them. Me personally, I like to work hard, and play hard, so I really enjoy my weekends off, and not having to go into work until 2pm. I think this is a case of "to each his/her own".

Darotker wrote:

I dont know the specifics of the HESS contract, as I've never seen one, but I'd be suprised if it actually states the teacher has to work more than 32 hours. That being said, I'm sure there are plenty of "additional unpaid office hours" or other extra work involved that is "expected" of teachers. I've heard of this before at many chain schools, including my own.

For me, I'm getting paid for working roughly 30 hours a week, and in reality I probably put in 35-36hrs a week. So what? I like the kids I teach, I like my co-teachers, and my Chinese staff, I don't see it as being such a bad thing spending a few extra hours unpaid with friends.

Although, I know not everyone has it this good, and many people won't look at it the same way. For them, I can see how the extra work would be really tough to swallow.

Darotker wrote:

It is true that there are schools out there who are NOT looking out for the best interests of the teachers. I know of people who have been shortchanged on hours, pay, tax refunds by their schools, because they are working at a smaller "mom & pop" bushiban. It does happen, but less frequently now, as chain schools are starting to become more, and more common.

I can't disagree that some of the working conditions at HESS are what I would consider "great" but for some people it would be. Like I said before, its a personal preference thing. The same can be said for your "Taiwan experience", your experience working for a school, and being in Taiwan is only going to be as good as you make it. If you're not happy where you are, then make yourself happy.

Darotker wrote:

Andrew Tiffany seems VERY happy working at HESS. Sorry, couldn't resist! Surprised

Darotker wrote:

There have been a ton of tough questions about HESS here which I think would warrant an answer as it directly relates to HESS. Instead he answers a question about visas just to get the HESS signature in a thread for publicity. Doesn't that seem a bit strange to you when there is a HESS thread right beneath it?

Agreed, there are plenty of good questions about HESS on here that go "unanswered" but the last time I checked this isn't HESS ESL CAFE, even though sometime I think it is when I sign on and see 50 posts about HESS this, and HESS that.

Anyways, if people want concrete answers, why not just e-mail Andrew directly, or e-mail HESS administration directly, rather than anonymously sending messages into the abyss that is internet forums, hoping you will get the answer you want to hear from a previously jaded HESS employee?

You could even re-post the contents of your e-mail on the forum for others to get "concrete" advice from. That would actually be VERY helpful to people considering HESS and other schools.

Darotker wrote:

This is all that some people are looking for, cause they don't really know what they are looking for. (I hope that makes sense, in an existential sort of way)

Darotker wrote:

I think I fell for their flashy website and advertisements everywhere. We've actually gotten off the topic here and I never wanted to get into so many specifics. Although, I suppose it's helpful for people to read through.

My point is just that I think there are a LOT of better options than HESS. I think I've given ample reason for why I feel that way, whether you agree or not.

There is more to be learned from healthy debate than senseless arguments. The specifics are important, because without reading posts like this one, 5 months down the road, there is going to be another wave of people saying "HESS this....", and "HESS that...."

Ah, who am I kidding, that's going to happen anyways....

Hope you're in a good place at your new job Darotker! Wink

Cheers/Ganbei! Surprised

pinkflyd7

Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Austin, TX (previously Taichung City)

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:37 am Post subject:

Darotker wrote:

When I wrote my rather lengthy critique of Hess, Andrew Tiffany only addressed one issue, and that was about teacher training, and ignoring almost everything else I said in my post. I'm not sure if it's part of his job to defend Hess in the internet forums when faced with almost daily criticisms of his company. Perhaps this should be a full time job? Wink

Even if he did respond, you wouldn't see him write something like "Hmm, that is a serious issue, I will look into it and get back to you immediately." These type of people will always try to put a positive spin on something, no matter how negative it is. Just like that general in Iraq who worked for Saddam Hussein who kept telling the Iraq people that the Americans were being defeated by Saddam's army and being "slaughtered on the walls" (Unfortunately, I forgot his name, but it was pretty hilarious).

clark.w.griswald

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:04 am Post subject:

Darotker wrote:

Clark, for someone who asks for (fairly) a lot of specific comments, that was a LOT of generalization and conjecture.

Actually that was the whole point of what I posted � to show that there is more than one reason that teachers leave Hess just as they do every other school and that it is not always the companies fault.

Darotker wrote:

I think that Hess have to accept responsibility for the fact that they do hire people from overseas and bring them here and that in doing this they will employ some individuals that should probably have never left the safety of their mom and dad! Hess clearly aims for younger individuals and thereby individuals with no teaching experience. The critics would claim that this is so that they can get suckers at suckers wages. Perhaps that is the reason that they expend so much energy and money recruiting from overseas, but then there are plenty of suckers already in Taiwan who are willing to work for suckers wages so I don�t think that this is the reason.

To me the fact that Hess targets younger individuals as opposed to older teachers with experience has to do with the fact that Hess has a structured program that does not require experienced teachers. So why should they pay for experience when they don�t need it. Generally speaking most experienced teachers would not enjoy their time at Hess as there is little room for these teachers to do things their way. I am sure that experienced and older teachers are welcome, but Hess is not willing to pay for that experience as they don�t need it.

So to me it has nothing to do with trickery, nor picking the naive, but more to do with choosing employees that best fit their company.

Darotker wrote:

First off I am not blindly defending anyone. I am merely pointing out that there are very few legitimate complaints about Hess and certainly no evidence that they are a terrible employer. This is in spite of what is often claimed by a handful of people on this forum.

I don�t agree that simply saying a lot of people leave must mean that they are a bad employer. As I have pointed out above people leave for different reasons � some because they are not happy with Hess (justly or unjustly) and others because they are not happy in Taiwan (justly or unjustly). So in fact I would suggest that your insinuation that the numbers of people who leave Hess must be indicative that they are a bad employer suggests that you are blindly attacking Hess.

Darotker wrote:

Perhaps that is what you meant to say but that is not the impression you gave. You gave the impression that they are a bad employer as they require teachers to work these long hours.

No I am not suggesting that it is a good nor a bad schedule. I am suggesting that if an employer is upfront about the conditions that they are offering that the employee can either choose to take them or leave them. If you or anyone else doesn�t want to work those hours then you can find another job. I don�t see much point complaining about the work hours after you accept them.

Darotker wrote:

I am certainly no expert but I do try to stay informed.

I am quite confident that Hess did not �make� anyone sign any contract. They would have offered you a contract which you would have read and if you agreed to the terms then you would have signed it showing that you agree to the terms. If you didn�t want to work 32 hours or whatever a week then you probably should not have signed a contract stating that you would.

You are right that no employer can make you work illegally, but I don�t see that Hess is making you work illegally.

Darotker wrote:

What about the fact that HESS has illegal Kindergatens? I know it's the norm in Taiwan, but it's worth mentioning.

Not sure why it is worth mentioning. The kindergarten is a situation with Taiwan not with any one school in Taiwan. It is widely known that teaching in kindergartens is illegal in Taiwan so anyone who chooses to work for in a kindergarten for Hess or any other school does this either knowingly or because he or she failed to do enough research. If you don�t want to work in a kindergarten then don�t sign up with one!

Darotker wrote:

I most certainly do believe that most schools are honest. Hess is certainly not the only school in Taiwan that teachers should consider working for. But as this discussion is about Hess it is important to acknowledge what you can get at Hess that you may not get at other schools.

You have selectively overlooked all the other advantages that Hess offers its teachers � it is not just about getting paid on time.

Did you choose to work for them because they pay on time? I doubt it.

Darotker wrote:

However, I can tell you from experience that most people I know were unhappy working at HESS. In fact, I can't think of even ONE person who was VERY happy working at HESS. A lot of other people have said this on this and other boards. Doesn't that say anything to you?

I openly acknowledge that there are people who are not happy at Hess. Strange that you don�t seem willing to acknowledge that some people are happy at Hess. Kind of suggests to me that you are fighting for a point of view rather than looking at the situation.

As I have wrote above though I think that to be really fair you need to look at why those people are unhappy. Are they all people who are unhappy with Hess or are some of them just people who are unhappy and happen to be at Hess? My guess is that there are cases of both, and as such to be fair we really need to put these numbers into perspective.

Darotker wrote:

Perhaps they have, but I am not familiar with which questions you are referring to. Do you care to post them again?

Darotker wrote:

I simply meant that the Head Office doesn't deal with problems, Andrew included. After training, you are pretty much on your own. They don't really help with anything. That's the way teachers feel. They feel unsupported.

This is not an unusual sentiment in most large companies and certainly no stranger to chain schools in Taiwan. In some cases it is a totally warranted complaint, while in other cases the head office is unable to help if a problem is not pointed out to them. Did you personally raise any issues with head office directly that weren�t dealt with?

Darotker wrote:

If Andrew chooses to post here as HESS, using HESS as his signature, then he opens himself up to questions about HESS. If he wants to post here as an individual, then he is welcome to do so. Then, it would be wrong to confront him about HESS, I agree. However, by using this forum to advertise for HESS, he also opens himself up to questions about his Company. That is completely fair on my part.

I disagree. If Andrew posted here as an individual then he would get accused of being a sympathizer or a paid lackey of the school or whatever. We have seen this often on this forum. He does the right thing in my opinion by openly declaring who he is and even putting his own name on his posts � something I would never do as I prefer anonymity. I don�t see that as advertising but just as full disclosure. I guess that this is one of those you�re damned if you do and you�re damned if you don�t scenarios.

You are certainly free to ask him questions, but he is equally free to choose not to answer them.

Darotker wrote:

My point is just that I think there are a LOT of better options than HESS. I think I've given ample reason for why I feel that way, whether you agree or not.

Fair enough. I think that the problem that I have with posts about Hess is that often they over generalize and portray an image that I don�t think is very fair.

StayingPower

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 252

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject:

clark.w.griswald wrote:

Darotker thanks for the specific comments you have made. Let me give you my view on what you have written.

Darotker wrote:

What about the fact that more than 50% of my training class didn't finish their contract?

Darotker wrote:

What about how horrible the schedules are with split shifts and Saturday work?

Darotker wrote:

What about how a LOT of HESS teachers work more than 32 hours a week? Isn't that illegal?

No it is not illegal. Once again though, was the work commitment outlined in your employment contract? If so then why did you sign if you did not want to work that many hours?

Darotker wrote:

The point is that most people who work there don't leave with positive feelings.

Darotker wrote:

Can you point out some of these tough questions that went unanswered? I don�t know Andrew but from his posts here he seems to me to be pretty honest and realistic.

Darotker wrote:

You're wrong once again, Clark. I've been coming to Asia since 1989, worked in South Korea for six years, and here for one. I've found HESS to be one of the most dubious of jobs I'd ever had, lacking in sense and reason, and that in it's teaching methodology, its training, its tricky contract and in its even trickier job duties.

Why am I putting HESS down, Clark? Because, simply put, I CAN'T STAND YES-MEN!!

clark.w.griswald

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:52 am Post subject:

Hmm, I am a bit confused. StayingPower you have quoted my replies to Darotker but replied in the first person. Are you and Darotker one and the same?

StayingPower wrote:

You're wrong once again, Clark. I've been coming to Asia since 1989, worked in South Korea for six years, and here for one.

So how does any of that make what I have written here wrong? Please explain? Seems to me that you are exaggerating - once again!

StayingPower wrote:

I've found HESS to be one of the most dubious of jobs I'd ever had, lacking in sense and reason, and that in it's teaching methodology, its training, its tricky contract and in its even trickier job duties.

Fair enough. You are certainly entitled to your opinions and your opinion of them is as valid as anyone elses.

It is only when you suggest that Hess is a terrible school that should be avoided by everyone that I have problem with your posts. Just because you have some problems with the way that they do things does not mean that:

a) they are automatically in the wrong; and/or

b) that everyone else will have the same problems with them

Of course a school that does not pay teachers etc. is going to be a problem for most and therefore is worth a warning, but a school whose curriculum you don't prefer or whose contract you didn't like is hardly in the same boat.

There is one point here that I didn't make in my earlier posts but would like to make here. Many schools, including Hess, continue to employ foreign teachers for kindergarten work even though that work is illegal. I have no problem with Hess running kindergartens, and I have no problem with foreign teachers opting to work illegally. I do have a problem however with any school that suggests to a teacher that it is okay to work in a kindergarten. I know that Hess used to suggest that it was okay and if they still do that then shame on them. At the end of the day the foreign teacher is the one who will bear the brunt of the consequences for working illegally and as such it is vital that schools and recruiters outline the legalities so that the teacher can make an informed decision.

So as I say, Hess is not in my opinion perfect, but they are certainly not a school that should be avoided just because there are some disgruntled teachers here.

sweet 'n sour

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 11

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:36 am Post subject:

Did the gig years back for 6 months with HESS in Hsinchu. Had the Canadian Club going STRONG back then with a mixed bag of nuts including a late 50'ish skunk that would go in at least once a week with alcohol on his breath. Mean demeanor. Graying & looking for a fight just like he was a school-kid himself. ... The longer people worked there - for the most part - the more unhappy they appeared. All branches have their own culture, but perhaps there is some set of commonality among the HESS culture. The kids were OK - it was the teachers that stunk! Sweet 'N Sour

pinkflyd7

Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Austin, TX (previously Taichung City)

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject:

As the original poster of this topic a few years back, I just wanted to let everyone know that I've written (and am still writing) very extensively on my time with Hess on my new blog, if you're interested. http://kenberglund.blogspot.com/ I have no real motives for plugging this blog site other than trying to inform people who are otherwise uninformed. I'm just writing it for my own memories in the future, since I also talk about how I met my wife, and having kids and all that other stuff.

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