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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Looks like Terrance is trying to be the poster child for the "don't bring drugs into Japan" movement. |
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Bozo Yoroshiku
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 139
Location: the Chocolate Side of the Force
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Just because someone is convicted, that doesn't mean they were guilty. Consider how some (many?) confessions are gotten even before a trial starts. Grilling a suspect in custody repeatedly during the day for 3 weeks without a lawyer present is enough to make a lot of people confess just to be given more than bread and water. |
The exact point I was trying to make, however subtlely. They may have this unrealistcally high conviction rate, but I have to wonder how many of those people put in prison were actually wrongly-convicted brow-beaten victims.
--boz |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Looks like Terrance is trying to be the poster child for the "don't bring drugs into Japan" movement. |
Don't for get Nick "Not My Drugs" Baker. |
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luckbox
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:06 am Post subject: |
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The concept of habeas corpus is a cornerstone of most Western judicial systems, so much so that many of us take it for granted. Japan's judicial system doesn't even pretend to adhere to it. Police powers of arrest in Japan are not much unlike those in police states and dictatorships. Much of this style of justice can be traced back to the days prior to the war, when Japan's Imperial Army-inspired secret police rivaled that of the Gestapo in Germany. Remnants of that culture of policing obviously still exist today, despite post-war constitutional overhauls.
Otherwise, the numerous human rights citations re: Japan's judicial/police/prision system by international, independent NGOs and agencies pretty much speaks for itself. |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| While the prison system here is far from perfect, you are also far less likely to get a big new boyfriend when in jail here. Violence amongst prisoners is far less than in Western countries. Suffice is to say jail is no picnic wherever you go. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Something else I forgot to mention in my post on the conviction rates above. In Japan, even when suspects want to plead guilty the case is still taken to "trial." So, in addition to the large number of cases Japanese prosecutors weed out through nol-pros'ing (I've read the number is around twice that of the U.S.), they're also counting guilty pleas as "convictions." In other words, the high percentage of "convictions" you read about in some of the critical reports noted above do not all involve contested trials and most questionable cases get dumped before ever getting to court. |
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Like a Rolling Stone
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quibby84 wrote: |
| I was watching a Japan educational video and the biggest thing that I thought different from the prisons in the United States is the fact that they teach you a trade while in jail (at least the prison on the video did). So that when you get out of jail you can go get a job. The do not do that in the US. In fact a guy (a guy who also did a show where he ate fast food for 30 days) did a show where he lived in jail for 6 weeks. He said that all they did was walk around and hang out...there was NOTHING to do, no work, nothing, they could just hang out and watch tv. Also he said that the food was disgusting. |
Spurting Morlock? |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Like a Rolling Stone wrote: |
| Quibby84 wrote: |
| I was watching a Japan educational video and the biggest thing that I thought different from the prisons in the United States is the fact that they teach you a trade while in jail (at least the prison on the video did). So that when you get out of jail you can go get a job. The do not do that in the US. In fact a guy (a guy who also did a show where he ate fast food for 30 days) did a show where he lived in jail for 6 weeks. He said that all they did was walk around and hang out...there was NOTHING to do, no work, nothing, they could just hang out and watch tv. Also he said that the food was disgusting. |
Spurting Morlock? |
Morgan Spurlock.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390521/combined |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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To those saying 'well if you don't want to go to jail don't commit a crime' read this story from today's Japan Times:
| Quote: |
Source: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20060824a5.html
Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006
Wrong man held for 10 months in hit-and-run
The Tokyo District Court acquitted a man Wednesday after he had been wrongly detained for 10 months until June in connection with a hit-and-run incident in Tokyo's Setagaya Ward in June 2005 that was later laid to a man who testified against him.
During closing arguments in July, prosecutors demanded that the court acquit the 28-year-old house painter of dangerous driving causing injuries and other charges, saying it was clear the defendant was not the perpetrator.
The Metropolitan Police Department has identified the hit-and-run driver as Tomohisa Enomoto, 21, and his accomplice as Hokuto Sugano, also 21. The two have since been charged with dangerous driving and perjury.
Judge Makoto Shibata said, "The testimony by Enomoto (and Sugano) was the only evidence (against the painter), but they are not trustworthy. There's no proof (the accused committed) the crime."
The incident occurred on June 27, 2005, when a car being chased by patrol cars ran a red light at a intersection in Setagaya Ward and collided with a small motorcycle. The 26-year-old newspaper delivery man on the motorcycle suffered serious injuries in the collision.
Enomoto and Sugano, who both knew the house painter, falsely testified in court that the defendant was the driver.
Despite the testimony in court by Enomoto and Sugano, the defendant had maintained his innocence.
In March, Tokyo police found an abandoned car on a mountain based on information obtained from the defendant's friends.
The wrongfully arrested man had served as a middleman to sell the car to Enomoto from its original owner.
From items found inside the car, police determined Enomoto was driving the car at the time of the hit and run.
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Moral of the story is it's not as simple as just not commiting crimes. There is a reason why human rights groups care so much about prison conditions. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: |
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[quote="kdynamic"]To those saying 'well if you don't want to go to jail don't commit a crime' read this story from today's Japan Times:
The American system isn't the best model either. Then there's the special American system. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detainment_camp |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
Moral of the story is it's not as simple as just not commiting crimes. There is a reason why human rights groups care so much about prison conditions. |
Thank you. That's exactly what I've been saying, which seems to get lost on most people.  |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
| Thank you. That's exactly what I've been saying, which seems to get lost on most people. |
I understood it. In fact, I had heard about the story in kdynamic's post several weeks ago. I'm suprised it's just now getting press.
But let's take a look at that story again. Sure it sucks that the guy was held for such a long time for something he didn't do. But it also proves it's possible in Japan to maintain one's innocence and ultimately go free. No police beatings or forced confessions were reported.
Now before anyone responds: "Yeah, but he was held in jail for 10 months" remember that two witnesses apparently lied to put him there. On that score, I really don't see much difference between Japan and the "West" -- unless you doubt that such things ever happen in any of the "enlightened" western judicial systems. In fact, from what I remember, testimony of two witnesses would normally be taken as rock solid evidence by U.S. prosecutors and this case would already have gone to trial with this guy likely long since convicted.
(If they're sure these witnesses were lying, what the prosecutors need to do is charge them both with the Japanese equivilent of making a false statement or wrongful prosecution.)
But it seems to me the argument above basically boils down to: prison conditions should not be too harsh because someone might be innocent. In my opinion, the place to remedy that problem is not in prisons, but rather by weeding out bad cases at the point prosecutors decide to bring charges which, as I noted above, happens at a much higher rate in Japan than in the United States.
* edited for clarity |
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