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| Ability to do is more important than ability to talk about |
| Ability to do rules |
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87% |
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| Ability to talk rules |
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12% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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guangho
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 476
Location: in transit
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 Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| guangho wrote: |
| ...the "much-vaunted graduate degree" will go a lot further than any certification course. |
What about a recipient of the M.A. in English degree who cannot recognize simple grammar and punctuation rules?
He or she will be referred to as avant-garde and grow a beard (regardless of gender), after which that person will spend a comfortable tenured career railing against dead white men like his/her immediate family.
She won't get those jobs requiring an M.A. in TESOL, will she?
Depends. Is she a blond? Did s/he contribute to the uni's board of governors? Is s/he married to a governor?
The first day on the job will prove her a fraud.
She'll fit right in.
She should stick to deconstructing the writings of dead European authors.  |
You're presuming her to be literate.....
Anyway, talk rules. It shouldn't, but we don't live in should-land, now do we? |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Entrailicus wrote: |
| Please don't stop. |
There's not much to work with here.  |
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newtefler
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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cor blimey.. it's getting somewhat heated in this room.. In answer to the poll:
Ability to do is more important than ability to talk about
Ability to do rules - Minion would argue the point... and rightfully so.. follow rules, do them well or your told to f.o. However (yes..ok!!) , their manager still needs to be able to conform to the rules.. and know the job. (You can't give someone constructive criticism until you've been there and done it.. emphasis on successfully.. yourself) and hopefully their manager are answerable to someone rules-wise too. As for talking about.. how can any employer succeed without listening to their staff.
Ability to talk rules - Management's role - In a bad situation.. reliance on a contract clause to the letter.. a get out clause for bad management. In an acceptable situation reminding someone what is reasonably accepted of them, find out why expectations aren't met... sensitively, coach to achieve.
So I guess what I'm saying is the answer is geared towards the role?
ps.. use of minion was getting a point across rather than being an insensitive trout! |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| Deconstructor wrote: |
| ...if you provided interesting reading, listening and speaking materials and stayed away from bullsh*t grammar and vocab games and tasks, not only the DOS would hate you, the students would as well. |
And this with an M.A. in English? Maybe you SHOULD get some training in teaching the language. It typically includes a class in grammar. |
Henry Cowell, you sure are a nasty piece of work, aren't you. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Miyazaki simply doesn't like being called a "stooge" of the notorious Taiwan-hater on these forums. Tsk tsk. If the shoe fits, he should wear it proudly!  |
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Sheikh Inal Ovar
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| newtefler wrote: |
cor blimey.. it's getting somewhat heated in this room.. In answer to the poll:
Ability to do is more important than ability to talk about
Ability to do rules - Minion would argue the point... and rightfully so.. follow rules, do them well or your told to f.o. However (yes..ok!!) , their manager still needs to be able to conform to the rules.. and know the job. (You can't give someone constructive criticism until you've been there and done it.. emphasis on successfully.. yourself) and hopefully their manager are answerable to someone rules-wise too. As for talking about.. how can any employer succeed without listening to their staff.
Ability to talk rules - Management's role - In a bad situation.. reliance on a contract clause to the letter.. a get out clause for bad management. In an acceptable situation reminding someone what is reasonably accepted of them, find out why expectations aren't met... sensitively, coach to achieve.
So I guess what I'm saying is the answer is geared towards the role?
ps.. use of minion was getting a point across rather than being an insensitive trout! |
Are you a good talker? |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| Miyazaki simply doesn't like being called a "stooge" of the notorious Taiwan-hater on these forums. Tsk tsk. If the shoe fits, he should wear it proudly! |
Henry Cowell, you pride yourself on being rude and abusive, don't you.
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newtefler
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Sheikh Inal Ovar"]
| newtefler wrote: |
Are you a good talker? |
No - I pride myself on my ability to bend the rules to mutual benefit  ) |
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thrifty
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1665
Location: chip van
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| guangho wrote: |
| ...the "much-vaunted graduate degree" will go a lot further than any certification course. |
What about a recipient of the M.A. in English degree who cannot recognize simple grammar and punctuation rules? She won't get those jobs requiring an M.A. in TESOL, will she? The first day on the job will prove her a fraud. She should stick to deconstructing the writings of dead European authors. |
Henry, do you have the CELTA? |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| thrifty wrote: |
| Henry, do you have the CELTA? |
Why would I need a CELTA? It's extremely useful and valuable for some, but I've never needed it. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: |
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The phrase of Decon's that Henry underlined is perfectly grammatical and correct.
Henry however feels that he has a God-given right to make up the rules of grammar and punctuation in accordance with what he half remembers from his high-school English classes. |
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