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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Shan-Shan wrote: |
Last semester I had classes of around the same size, though was fortunate enough not to have a textbook to follow. You could do the same for a portion of the class (that is, put the textbook aside). Prepare some activities thematically, lexically and/or grammatically related to a lesson from the textbook. These tasks/activities would be done orally, and in groups (which could interact/meld into something larger depending on what you've prepared)
Choral repetition with the teacher, or reading from the text aloud, only affords students a chance to practice exercising their pronunciation. My advice is for you to devise some work for students where they themselves need to invent language along free or strict guidelines depending on their abilities/requirements for any possible exams. Most important, in my view, is that the activities be meaningful, have some kind of purpose. This will instill motivation -- without it, the tiny floodgates of stored linguistic knowledge which need to flow (i.e. be used, implemented) to avoid stagnation and forgetfulness will have a difficult time opening.
Students are asking for more time to speak -- give it to them. With such large classes, and likely limited abilities, a "free talk" in groups would be a waste of time. Tasks designed to elicit what has previously be learned will help recycle the old while, hopefully, cementing the new linguistic knowledge which the students have recently encountered.
Keep the linguistic requirements of each speaking portion somewhat simple, but always new and related to points already presented by you and the textbook. Students will be more responsive to an oral exercise if they view it as having a cognitive and linguistic "reason", and not just blabbing without a direction. Those who are aware and critical of their learning, that is. Most may still just prefer that no one disturb their daydreaming. |
And the reward for using "linguistic" the most times in a single post goes to....
Seriously, I can't understand half of what you wrote. Guess my reading comprehension ain't what it used to be! |
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Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: |
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I'll try to keep my "linguistic" frequency on the rise up 'less anyone break my record.
I'm waiting for my reward... |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: |
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shan-shan - the magic number here at daves seems to be around 9,000. After you have used "liguistic" this number of time you have to follow hallowed and traditional protocol by changing name - of your favourite word  |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| kerrilee wrote: |
| I have uni classes of 60-90 and they always complain that they don't get enough speaking practice!!!!! I am teaching from a reading book! The class of 60 are unmotivated undergrads in the 3rd year of a 7 year course and the postgrads are in the first of a 3 year course (classes of 90........) Any ideas for classes this size? |
Do your students actually listen when someone talks to them? That would be uncharacteristic of them!
I am trying to tell you that virtually all students have very poor comprehension skills, and the bigger a class the less the individual can improve it.
But there is quite a bit you vcan do about it; first thing you need to understand why they are so passive.
They are so passive because they only repeat after their teachers, never produce their own thoughts in English.
All their speaking is chorussing, and that's enormously counterproductive because in such a noisy environment you simply can't identify poor pronunciation!
So, I would ask them to read aloud to their classes so that they get some feedbaack on how their English sounds. I assure you this is an eye-opener for most of them!
THey usually think it's enough for them to speak to you as their sole audience; you should turn the table and make them understand that they must speak to each other.
That will reveal their mispronunciations, mangling, poor intonation to such a degree that they will wake up and learn something from their mistakes.
TO do that class size is less relevant although smaller classes always are advantageous.
But no matter whether you have 40 or 90 students in the same room listening to the single gal saying "fourteen ships..." when the book says "40 sheep..." someone will hear the mistake. |
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kerrilee
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for that advice, I will try and get them to talk to each other more (hopefully they will do it in English!!!!). It is a shock having such large classes after 20.......It is also interesting to know the characteristics of those who have been through the system - I have only taught those at the start of the system before and so they haven't learnt to stop listening yet!!!!Good to know its not just me.... |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| That will reveal their mispronunciations, mangling, poor intonation to such a degree that they will wake up and learn something from their mistakes |
I'm totally intrigued by this post - are teenage students here so passionate about their English that they can be spurred onto greater efforts by embarrassing them with their own pronunciation. If so this place must surely be turning into an ESL El Dorado!!!! |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| That will reveal their mispronunciations, mangling, poor intonation to such a degree that they will wake up and learn something from their mistakes |
I'm totally intrigued by this post - are teenage students here so passionate about their English that they can be spurred onto greater efforts by embarrassing them with their own pronunciation. If so this place must surely be turning into an ESL El Dorado!!!! |
Not an intelligent comment but then again who knows whether you will one day learn what's happening at Chinese SCHOOLS as compared to kindergartens? After all, a good teacher is one who never believes he or she has learnt enough for the rest of their life...
Actually, students don't feel that embarrassed, and embarrassment can't be so bad if it opens their minds. As I said, it isn't embarrassing per se - it can be if it is done merely to mock them.
But not listening to others talking doesn't prevent them from experiencing embarrassing situations. In fact, it prepares them for further embarrassments because in real life you cannot avoid making mistakes and finding out about them too.
To give you an example:
I did my morning exercises including running for several kms on the bank of a river one day; there were lots of Chinese English students doing what probably all students do - reading aloud!
One was standing next to the edge of a pavillion overlooking the river; I ran past him several times and on my last lap I overheard him stutter
"I sink...I sink...I sink..."
You know they repeat words and phrases and seldom finish a whole sentence in one go...
I stopped and wondered: "I sink?" Was this guy going to jump into the river and drown? Commit suicide?
I told him that, and he told me "yes, I sink I will pass the test..."
Now you will tell me everyone immediately "understands" from the context (even that two-letter context that he repeated several times!) what the student actually was saying...
On the other hand, I fear for this student - not that he would really kill himself in a river - but that he would "sink" in an ENglish-speaking society where the difference between "think" and "sink" matters a little more than it does in China!
OR in a CHinese kindergarten for that matter... |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:16 am Post subject: |
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This would probably work for Junior Middle School and maybe for Senior as well:
If you can find some tickets or fake money (not counterfeit!), give each student, oh, three pieces at the beginning of every class. Keep a fresh class list handy for each classtime. Every time a student makes an attempt to contribute to class orally (whether it be reading aloud, participating in a role play activity, answering/asking a question, etc.), put a little tick by his or her name. If they recieve 3 ticks or more per class, they keep all their tickets/money. If only two ticks, they have to give up one piece; one tick, give up two pieces; no ticks, give up all three pieces.
At the end of a month or so, bring in some small prizes (if you can afford it - - or ask the school to help supplement) - - nothing too fancy, some pencils, erasers, candy, those little things people like to put on their mobile phones . . . so on. Predetermine "how much" each item will cost and the students can buy what they want. Seems to juvenile? Then make out some "coupons" they can buy. Such as: "one free homework pass" or "one free sleep pass" or whatever. You can be creative as you'd like. Believe it or not, letting little Wang Xi sleep for one class is not going to hinder his English abilities. He's going to think he's gotten away with something and you're going to be the cool teacher (note the ONE free pass, not unlimited).
I'm getting ready to do this with my second graders. However, getting them to participate in lessons is rarely a problem for many of them. However, getting them to "casually" speak English (when I know they can say . . . whatever they're saying in Chinese . . . it in English) beyond the parameters of the lessons is a challenge. I'll try it for a month or two, see if it works or not. But we all know how childlike even teens can be, so I see no reason why a variation of this idea can't work! |
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poopsicola
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: World travelling
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Pedagogue on the run |
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I can just picture the scene behind the pavilion by the riverbank. No doubt the boy (not a kindergartener) will tell his grandchildren of his curious encounter with the a sweaty gentleman who lectured him in a thick Swiss German accent about the pitfalls of English. "Ve haf veis of making you say "th"." He'd have been so grateful for the correction.
I must say that it really opens my eyes to the possibilities of real education when I read some of Roger's little anecdotes. He so cares about excellence. I must mention him to my friend, Douglas Reeves. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Not an intelligent comment but then again who knows whether you will one day learn what's happening at Chinese SCHOOLS as compared to kindergartens? After all, a good teacher is one who never believes he or she has learnt enough for the rest of their life... |
Sorry steppenwolf - I must say I learnt a lot from your astute post - a true classic of educational accounts - indeed a masterpiece that has embarrassed me into an utter sinking/thinking silence  |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Shan-Shan wrote: |
| I'm waiting for my reward... |
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Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Champion is a little excessive, but I'll still proudly wear the badge during tomorrow's class. Should anyone then disturb me in doing my linguistic thing (that is, getting students into the linguistics of English without being overly burdened by the linguistics; rather, allowing the students to adapt previously learned linguistic units which they feel comfortable with to new situations while simultaneously acquiring and practicing new (that day) linguistic knowledge which I shan't say overtly to them as linguistic for fear of sounding like a wannabe Linguist), I'll just point to by red ribbon.
6!!!
Or maybe I'll just throw up my hands and hang myself on the gallows drawn so crookedly on the blackboard. |
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