Job Discussion Forums

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

I second that..embassys are next to worthless...

the end of it ..is that you cannot do anything until the holidays are over..and at that time you need to go to your work unit and explain your concern...but if they even suggest that you extend your L.(if that is what you have).agree with them..extend it and then look for your best way out...in the mean time ask for a "front" til payday...

no_exit · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 565 Location: Kunming

I still think it is a lot of concern over something that will more likely than not turn out fine in the end.

Think about it. Why would a school put a clause in a contract that awards the FT up to $2000 if a working visa is not obtained if they couldn't get the visa in the first place.

I know the immediate reaction is sometimes to scream foul, but unless you are the first FT the school has ever encountered, they know how to handle the visa. They're not going to screw themselves over by having your visa expire and not doing anything about it. I know from experience that the visa is the first concern for a (legitimate) school when hiring a new teacher. Holidays are holidays, and it is a waste trying to get anything done this week what with National Day and then Mid Autumn Festival on top of that. Your school isn't going to just forget about your visa. Find out what the deal is on Monday, remind them of the date, and ask about the physical. You can extend a tourist visa at least once for a fairly minimal cost if it comes down to it, so there's no need to panic just yet.

I do agree that contacting the embassy would be worthless, and that you're not going to get the school to cough up the penalty fees or admit to breach of contract (especially since your original visas haven't even expired yet). Make sure the school gets the ball rolling this week and you'll still be fine. I've cut visas incredibly close before, but the consequences have never been dire. Like I said, reputable schools (is your school one?) know how to deal with this stuff.

adamsmith · Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 259 Location: wuhan

I could not agree with you more no exit. I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

No exit, if I am misunderstanding your posts, then I am sorry...

but....

contracts are absolutely worthless here and if the visa expires on the 15th and if it is not renewed, how in the devil can they have matter entered into the People's Court (where it can sit for months, if not years, if not for ever) and then expect to collect anything when they will be somewhere else at that point.

And TW and CJ are correct, and my experience in these matters is as recent as two weeks ago. If the province can "convert" the tourist visa in country, it will be a ONE-STEP process. The PSB will not first issue a Z visa and then issue the infolio work permit and residence permit. No, the PSB will ask for the Foreign Expert Certificate (which requires the medical), the Medical (which requires a healthy foreigner), and all of the relevant papers from the school. Then the tourist visa will be stamped "cancelled", even if it has expired and it will be replaced by the all-purpose infolio work permit and residence permit which also function as a multiple entry-and-reentry visa. That is how things are being done now. So sorry but there are many hurdles to go through in a very short period of time.

Next, your suggestion about renewing the tourist visa is the optimal choice at this point given all of the incertitudes that surround this case. It can be done easily in some places (and not at all in others -- in Shanghai it is impossible beyond difficult sometimes) so I can speak to Hainan. I just urge caution.

Next, do not for one minute assume that the school is legit, that the contract is meaningful and aboveboard, etc., etc. The OP needs to have a firm talk with the school and make some quick decisions because even IF the school is legit, and even if they are processing the visa, which I strongly doubt, that leaves precious little time.

And remember, as far as the PSB is concerned, the onus is on the holder of the passport, no matter what. Extend the tourist visa, pressure the school, and then put two-plus-two together and make an lucid decision -- that is what I would urge the passport holder.

Steppenwolf · Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 1769

no_exit · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 565 Location: Kunming

WordUp · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 131

There are two ways a school can approach the problem of you having the improper (L-visa) to work in China.

1) They can apply for the invitation letters required to INVITE YOU for a Z visa, which basically is the permission for you to enter the country to work.

OR

2) They can attempt to directly try to convert your L visa to residence permit, which is almost impossible to do in China these days.

So, assuming they have started processing the invitation paperwork for your Z-visa, (They can do that even though you are already in China with L visa) you'll have to wait until after the holiday to deal with the issue and as someone already said you are okay so long as they are processing the visa. A medical examination IS NOT REQUIRED for the school to apply for the invitation letter, it is only required to obtain the residence permit after you have got the Z visa.. Or in many situation an F-visa can be converted to res. permit, BUT an L-visa cannot be converted in 99.9% of places now.

The medical examination comes only AFTER you have received the Z visa, OR in cases where they are attempting to convert a visa directly to a Res. Permit. However, if your Dr. Completed a Q2 Med. Evaluation Form oin the USA, you can use that in most provinces without submitting to the supplemental examination.

But because you are on tourist visa, I doubt your Dr filled out that form before you came.. So off to the provincial Chinese hospital for you once you have your Z visa! Enjoy the holiday!

*cough*

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

adamsmith · Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 259 Location: wuhan

In addition to TWs comment, in Hubei and Zhejiang province, the medical from abroad wont matter. You will still need to have another medical done in these provinces. Hubei will require a complete medical, while Zhejiang will accept portions of the forign medical but will still require some parts to be repeated in the province.
Beijing will accept the foreign medical if everything is in order.

The medical is not normally needed for the invitation letter, but, depending on where you process the Z visa, whether or not they will require proof of medical. In Hong Kong they did not ask to see my medical forms but in Korea they wanted all copies of everything before issuing a visa.

The medical is definately required for processing your Z visa into an FRP and FEC

no_exit · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 565 Location: Kunming

My experience with the medical backs up what the other posters have said. You don't usually need a (Chinese) medical to get the invitation letter/Z visa, but you will need it in order to get a residence permit.

So without knowing *how* the OP's employer is going about getting the visa, then there's no way of knowing if his visa is in processing or not.

Have we heard from the OP again recently? How goes it?

kellyb · Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 19

thanks for your posts.
We are not new in china and have worked here before but never had these problems before. Everything was arranged without fuss.
We are not looking to quit, thankyou but do not want to overstay our visa and have problems in the future.
We have spoken to the school who have told us because of the hols and the lack of time to arrange a medical they will give us a three month f visa in the interim as this is easy to arrange quickly. We know this is dodgy and we should not be working but at least we are able to stay on chinese soil. We will speak to our school about this ands explain the working/residence permit is what we really need.
ta

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

kellyb, thanks for clarifying. For telling us as much as you can, given how much you have been told by the school, and how much of that may or not happen to be true. What theyhave come up with (conversion to an F) sounds like an easy way out for the school, but hey if it works then fine. What works this time notwithstanding, be careful. If in 3 months it becomes another dodgy "just this once more" story and another F, I think you know what you need to do. Keep your bags packed and near the door.

no-exit,

no_exit · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 565 Location: Kunming

that's true latefordinner. If the school was without a doubt reputable, then they wouldn't have to ask these questions in the first place.

They could still be telling the truth about the holidays and whatnot, but if they do it again and don't provide a work visa, then you probably shouldn't stick around. Working on an F isn't technically legal, and while it is highly unlikely you'll get into any trouble for it, it is better safe than sorry (although if anyone from the PSB decides to come poking around checking out what visas the teachers at your school have, the school stands to lose the most. The fines for having non-liscenced foreign teachers are hefty).

And of course anyone is welcome to contact me (through PM!) about positions. Equal opportunity and all that, and although I can't exactly go advertising on these boards for teachers, I'd certainly consider people that I met through here (my case is a bit different than HFGs, who got people jobs simply because he's a nice guy and wanted to help. I *have* to find teachers for my school and a few of our branch schools who haven't got the luxury of a foreign admin).

kellyb · Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 19

Bollocks. The shit has now hit the fan. Today we went to the school to collect our money. We had to get them to open a bank account for us because we still didn't have our passport. This was done but not all of our money was in the account. We went to admin who did not help us in anyway so we stormed off to the leaders office. After a few phone calls he told us that our passport was still at the visa office and they were still not sure if they would be able to provide us with one.
As you can imagine we were a little angry due to the fact that our L visa expired on the 15th. So we have given them till Friday to supply the visa or the contract is broken and they must pay the breach penalty and a fines we will incurr for overstaying the visa. They have agreed to this and we shall see what will happen on Friday. Not too worried about overstaying because they said they will pay and it seems that they are a little worried about what we will say to the psb/embassy as they are owned by hainan airlines. It seems that the leader of the school is going to have to bribe someone so as long as we are still earning it's ok.

Just a quick question, is it true that the max fine for overstaying is 5000rmb?

Thanks

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

that what is written...but additional punishments could also be served up...such as no additional visas...and the law could hold the visa holder responsible for payment...