Job Discussion Forums

[sheeba]

Couldn't agree more Richie . Sad to say but I'm not going to teach them Oral English . Another problem is that they have me as a teacher for 4 and a half months and then that's it . Most of them after this time will just never continue .I can only go in there and stand up for the 2 percent in my class that will . Perhaps I can encourage more to gain interest .

Today one of the students who complained about my class last month really made me think . I asked him what he did outside class to learn English . He replied 'wake up and talk in the mornings ' Who to I asked (knowing the response ) 'Myself' he said . So he was complaining that I wasn't teaching properly which wound me up a lot (f you see my previous post on it) and telling me how to teach - The student who wakes up in the morning to talk English to a brick wall ! Must be Chinese methodology that I'm missing out on here .

I'll probably stay until next semester as I have other goals here that are not teaching related but honestly this is a viscious circle .

[mondrian]

There is a very linteresting (and long) essay in the March 2004 Asian-EFL Journal by: Minsheng Li on Culture and Classroom Communication.
http://www.asian-efl-journal.com/04_ml.pdf
It is concerned with the satisfaction (or otherwise) of Chinese students studying English in New Zealand.
Many students end up being extremely dissatisfied and consider the experience to be a very expensive waste of money (perhaps their parents life-time savings). The reasons are many but dominant are the great change in teaching style of their new NZ teachers, who place emphasis on communication activities (which they do not understand either the content or purpose of); the lack of a text-book (for additional private study); the lack of teacher lesson planning and class preparation even though the teachers are ESOL "qualified"
It makes for very interesting reading and an insight of the "other side of the fence"

[sheeba]

I was going to start a new thread but I should be able to drag it out on this one I hope . I reckon next year should be my last in China and I'd like to at least leave the teaching here with a feeling of accomplishment and something to take away . I'll probably end up in England some time teaching TESOL so I'll still be dealing with Chinese students and I want to learn as much as I can about their problems with language acquisition .I've already read some good advice here and my own research and experience has got the ball rolling this year but I still have headaches determining my students real problems.

I notice Klaus did not continue his thread on teaching and do wonder if Grammar really is a bigger problem in the class than I am giving it and him credit for . I also note that Stephen Roger Wolf also seems to hold some shared opinions in favour of some kind of grammar emphasis in lessons .

Now the reason I am talking about grammar is that it is the only area that has really confused me in China with regard to teaching . From my observations I can see that Pronunciation definitely needs addressing and I also see that vocabulary is important in context and the students need to understand how the vocabulary relates to the words that surround .

I've always persuaded my students to just try and communicate with one another and me . communication has always been emphasised but should I really be devising plans that introduce students to correct grammar usage . Why should I use grammar in class ? I certainly don't want to stop students in their speech because they make grammar mistakes if I understand their meaning but the problem is that we're communicating in Chinglish to some extent (at least on their behalf) and when they communicate with one another they most certainly use Chinglish .Or is this a problem ? (I hear Roger Stephen Wolf making big big noises in the background - sorry Rodge !) I'm not going to butt in when good communication is occuring but these days I have been pondering the need for my students to understand(use) grammar even at the basic level. Before I have thought that at the basic level I can still communicate but when I throw in a past continuous , present perfect or a more complex form and well to be Frank they're screwed . Does this stem from their inability to use the basic forms ? I'm guessing yes but to be honest I don't know .


I guess I'm asking what emphasis should grammar have in Oral english class , how should this be presented and how should grammar errors in class be dealt with ?Is communication the key in conversation or are we just delaying any further progress for our students ? Will efforts in promoting grammar use affect communication ?

I hope you guys can help a little . Cheers .

PS - I have looked for previous posts regarding Grammar in the class but oddly I can't find any .

S

[sheeba]

Interesting Mondrian . Some of that kind of mirrors the points on this post . I hope others will look at that .It's only 2 language schools that they've assessed right ? Also it talks about those with a TESOL cert . We all know that TESOL certs like the CELTA do not make a teacher . I would not expect someone with a CELTA necessarily to be able to explain grammar points to a student . And the teachers lessons seem terrible to me - no wonder they complained but I think it is a little biased to be honest- 2 language schools is no representation .I know from when I go and teach in the UK that there are some shocking teachers posing as TESOL professionals .

Anyway the point that the Chinese go to New Zealand to waste their money ? I don't think so .

[Shan-Shan]

One potential for "teaching" grammar, and satisfying students' needs to feel that a "real" class is underway, is to combine controlled and uncontrolled activities into your lesson plan.

In the past, I've taught the future perfect and future continuous through this method. I begin by making explicit points about about the grammar, showing through contrast how these two "futures" differ from the simple future and from each other. Next, I do some controlled exercises where students, for example, are given sentences in the simple future, or in the present, and have to convert them to the correct "future" form according to tags at the end of the sentence (ex: "Dogs rule the earth in 2293" (already completed -- Dogs will have ruled the Earth by 2293).

After this controlled work is done, the students embark upon a communicative activity whose successful completion necessitates the use of both the future perfect and future continuous, giving students more practice with the grammar without knowing it and by using the grammar in a communicative, meaningful way.

Grammar needs to be taught in the classroom. How it's taught, though, should be both directly and via communicative exercises (the latter being getting the students to "do" the grammar in purposeful ways).Doing little isolated sentences in the present continuous are a bore, and connect to nothing. Embed the grammar into the tasks after first drawing students attention to the forms. This is what I have done (not in every lesson mind you), and have seen some decent results.

And Sheeba: don't get too worried about certificates. The best Chinese grammar teacher I had never completed university. The worst English grammar teacher I had ("English Descriptive Grammar" Ling. 205) had a doctorate in TESL and was head of the TESL program at my university!

[tw]

[Steppenwolf]

[sheeba]

Thanks guys . Roger , Shan Shan for ideas . I've been interviewing students today and come to conclusions that Pronunciation , Vocabulary and Grammar are problem areas that need urgent attention . I'm going to try and subtly stick in grammar parts to my lessons . Hopefully they won't notice . It's more an experiment for me to see if it is effective . Part of the problem I face with grammar teaching is that students feel that you are underestimating their levels. . It's a very odd situation in my eyes - Students that understand the theory but can't make the correct utterance. I've taught grammar before to them but you see how easily they fall back into their mistakes and habits .I feel more confident now of my ability to teach the students and I seem to have some respect in class which I have never had before . I think when they see that you care(and understand their problems) they work for you but the problem is they become more demanding of you as a teacher !

Problem before I think was the need to recycle in classes . Something that is very very important . They need the recycling and review otherwise they forget and all your efforts are wasted ! Of course I have the old levels problem in all this and teaching grammar is the most difficult skill to teach but doesen't teaching in China make you a flexible teacher !!

cheers again