Job Discussion Forums

[jammish]

Agree with chengdude about tempering expectations. Chinese beautiful is rather lower down the scale than western beautiful.

Some Chinese cities are utter hellholes. Others are reasonably pleasant. But to say they are beautiful a la Barcelona/Florence/Venice is stretching the point...

[Gregor]

Yeah,
I thought this thread would go in this direction.
It's true, OP, that most of the places you are likely to find work are not the beautiful spots you see in the Snapple commercials.
I already suggested Benxi, which you might like for laid-back on a daily basis, but you're looking at big cities, so might I suggest giving Shenyang a look? The climate can be quite cold in the winter, but summers are nice, and what's nice about, I think, most of Dongbei (Manchuria) is the skies.
Man, oh man the skies are beautiful there, year-round. As polluted as Shenyang is, the sky is Blow Your Mind Blue most of the time. The people are as friendly as anywhere I've ever been, and they speak a dialect of Chinese that is so similar to Beijing that you would do just FINE learning from any mandarin text (which are written based on the Beijing dialect).
There's a lot of work, beautification of the city is moving rapidly, and they, too, are building a subway.
Just a suggestion.

[no_exit]

Most Chinese cities, the bigger ones anyhow, aren't beautiful. The countryside can be breathtaking, but the cities are fairly uniform in their ugliness. Huge skyscrapers, crowed streets, pollution (Chengdu is very heavily polluted), etc.

If you're looking for beauty, you should maybe try a smaller town that is not far from a metropolis. You will probably find that you have plenty of free time while you're not teaching, during which you can make trips to the city for your creature comforts.

Kunming, Xiamen, Qingdao, and Dalian strike me as cities which have their nice bits (not too far from mountains/ocean, some tree lined streets, and a distinct local flavor). Of course, these cities are also highly sought after by FTs, which has advantages and disadvantages.

Like the others said (and I don't want to be a bubble burster either), I think you would be wise to curb your enthusiasm just a little bit. China can be a great place, and most people can find something to like about just about any place if they live there long enough, but you need to be aware that there's a lot to dislike as well. The problem with having such high hopes is that if they get dashed, then the fall hurts even more.

You also set yourself up to get taken advantage of by being overly enthusiastic, and therefor more likely to believe what you read on the internet or hear from recruiters (like Chengdu being the most beautiful place in China...). Schools and recruiters (and I run a school, so you're hearing it from the horse's mouth) will often use the line about local teachers making such and such ... which is true, but not an excuse for giving you a lower salary. Chinese teachers and FTs don't really stand up well to comparision, for the reasons people have already given. Whether they like it or not, decent schools who want to attract decent teachers have to pay those teachers a competitive wage. Schools shouldn't be giving FTs guilt trips about what an average Chinese teacher makes. Keep in mind that you're well paid by local standards and try to be understanding of this when dealing with Chinese teachers, but don't let them use this as a bargaining chip in regards to your salary.

Keep a clear head when negotiating. Without a degree you won't pull in the top salaries, and you might be limited as to where you can work, but you will probably be able to find something. Don't be taken in by over the top promises from schools, and remember that if it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is. Be prepared to have some unexpected "surprises" and try to take them with grace, and chalk it up to a lesson learned. Very few of us luck out our first time around and land in a perfect job with a perfect employer and just stay there forever. Finding a good place to live/work is just as much a matter of trial and error as anything else in life, and probably moreso in China.

[sojourner]

Marina,

"Chendude" has mentioned that Chengdu is pretty polluted - but, so are most cities in China ! I have been to Chengdu on about four occcasions over the past seven weeks.The thing that I dislike the most about the place is that it is spread out over such a large area. and it is a hassle in getting around - the new underground railway, I'm sure, might make things a bit easier !

"Chendude" also mentioned something about the restaurants in Chengdu. On my last visit there, I actually came across an Indian restaurant ( at the Sunjoy Inn Hotel). I recently learnt that there are two other Indian restaurants in town. Not sure about Thai, Japanese, etc, but wouldn't be surprised.

However, Sichuan is not merely Chengdu ! I'm currently teaching at Mianyang, which is about 1.5 hours by bus from Chengdu. While Chengdu is quite polluted and spread-out, Mianyang is comparatively clean and has a population of around 600 k. (The locals like to tell visitors that their city is the "3rd cleanest city in China" - I'm not sure which are the first two !). Anyway, I find that Mianyang is a reasonably pleasant sort of place where it's comparatively easy to get around. Also, there are a few Western restaurants in town, including "Grandma's Kitchen" (I'm not sure if it's run by the same people that run its Chengdu namesake). I have been told that there are Japanese, Korean and Thai restaurants in town ! There are also a couple of KFC outlets, as well as one McDonalds.

Prior to coming to Mianyang, I spent two years teaching near Zhoushan City, which is on Zhoushan Island (Zhejiang Province). That city is considerably smaller than Mianyang, but is quite a pleasant sort of place. Also, it is only about three hours, or so, by bus and ferry from the nearest "large" mainland city, viz. Ningbo, which you might also want to consider.

My first job in China was in Jiu Jiang (Jiangxi Province). JJ is a bit polluted, but liveable. In my opinion, "smallish" cities such as Mianyang, Zhoushan and JJ are preferable to the "super" cities (eg Beijing, Shanghai,Guanzhou, etc), in that, apart from the pollution factor, the "small city" people are a bit more relaxed, it's easier to get around, C.O.L. is a bit lower, etc.

Although I have never worked there, my favourite city is Hangzhou. It's on the banks of the beautiful West Lake. It's a "smallish" sort of city compared to Shanghai, but has a lot of Western facilities, esp Western bars and restaurants. (BTW, it's only about two hours by bus from Shanghai !).

In your OP, you mentioned that you haven't got a degree.This could prove a handicap to you. I believe that one needs a degree in order to get the appropriate visa, etc. However, it would appear that the pertinent regulations are not always rigidly enforced - a lot depends on the individual province. As "No Exit" mentioned, you would probably be able to pick up something. However, for the best sorts of jobs (eg those in the college and uni sectors), a degree is usually required. You might want to consider enrolling in a distance education/online degree programme- but, if you do, make sure that you enrol at a proper, recognised, uni.

Good luck !

Peter

[Gregor]

(to self: I'm not really going to DO it, am I? Suggest that the OP get a fake degree? That is unethical and dishonest and illegal...but how would anyone ever KNOW? Anyway, with a TEFL certificate, she's at least QUALIFIED for the job, as far as the industry is concerned...once they issue the work documents, they never look again...a lot of people do it...but that doesn't make it right...no, I'd get flamed completely beyond what I get now...banned from the site??? Heaven forbid! But the authorities never check! She may be a good teacher! Ah, but it offends many people here, and the idea that a fake degree = a real degree makes them feel like they wasted their time and money becaue they ended up working in China, and RIGHTLY SO...what a conundrum...don't do it. It's not worth it...OK. Decided.)

OP,
Peter is right. In most of China, a baccalaureate degree or higher is required in most of China, and no doubt the rest will soon follow. There are other places in the world, though. Have you considered Latin America?
Best of luck.

[tofuman]

AM,

There are a lot of Chinese types posting here, people who have no responsibility once you take their advice and get burned.

A short time ago a guy got an email, after he had his plane ticket and was supposed to leave for China in a couple of days, informing him that his job no longer existed. People here encouraged him to come anyway, "finding jobs was easy." Last post of his I read, after he arrived, was that he was going back home, considering his trip a "learning experience." He was exhausted by dead end interviews and the stress of uncertainty.

If you come to China without a Z visa, no degree, and a boyfriend in tow, you have really good chances of ending up in a real mess. This is not Disneyland. You stand top lose a few thousand dollars in travel costs, hotel expenses, taxi scams, etc.

If you can afford it, and have nothing else to do, it will still be a disappointment. Not certainly, but, perhaps, probably.

[daodejing]

Guilin and Yangshuo. I was there 3 years ago. The karst scenery is beautiful; it seemed they didn't have a lot of prerequisites for finding a teaching job there.

[7969]

[tw]

[7969]

[tw]

[jammish]

[tofuman]

Zombiechris is the person to whom I was referring.

From my perspective, after a mere three years here, the OP seems way too naive and may be in for some rude surprises. I'm simply trying to give her a different point of view. She may arrive, bf in tow, find a job and have few difficulties.

There was another poster back a while, "Missionsonmind" approximates her handle. She came ahead after getting some optimistic advice, scoffed at caution and then was candid enough to post after she arrived and got burned big time. Practically every caution she was given proved to be true. Last I heard, she was working things out, but I haven't seen her around for a long time.

The OP has nothing going for her except a TOEFL. No degree, boyfriend, apparently quite young-- these things are poison in the minds of the people in the area that I live in. Check out the job offers asking for married couples. Marriage is still fairly normative in most of China.

I don't say that I subscribe to it myself, just making observations based on personal experience in China. I wish her and all good luck.

[7969]

[AQUA MARINA]

It's great that everyone has an opnion. I go over and beyond researching before I decided to move. I've travelled most of my
life anf know it's not always roses so i do try and have realistic expectations wherever i end up.

I posted this to get ideas and have been comparing it with other China forums and info. boards. I will be careful and speak to the teachers already employed at the school and check out the rep before i sign any contract.

I wanted to get a handful of places for ideas and it's great feedback.
Actually I do have a college degree. I'm jus looking to see what the expectations are out there.