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dduck
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| dyak wrote: |
| and people who do this course are generally intelligent and more than capable of self-evaluation, you knew why the lesson was bad, you know what to do next time… you don’t need to be put in the stocks. |
My experience was quite different. One of my early lessons felt like a complete disaster, my phone went off during the class, doh! And I was stumped by one of the students questions. It felt so bad during the class that I actually thought about making a break for the door and never looking back. I found the feedback afterwards to be much more balanced, i.e. supportive, than my own opinion of my class. I have other examples where other trainees finished their class disgusted or seriously disheartened by their own performance - our course had a few burn-outs. Part of my group's feedback was often to give strong positive feedback, to balance our often negative opinions of our own performance. I think we were all quite proud that all of our group managed to make it to the end of the course. 
Somewhat related, I think the trainers are taught to get the trainees to give peer feedback first. I suppose it's used for the same reason that we get students to correct each other, rather than have the teacher do it all. It much less intimidating... in theory.
Iain |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Somewhat related, I think the trainers are taught to get the trainees to give peer feedback first. I suppose it's used for the same reason that we get students to correct each other, rather than have the teacher do it all. |
This is exactly what happens, or more correctly, the way the feedback is supposed to be set up. Teach, then self-evaluation, then peer evaluations, then tutor evaluation. Our group started off doing this well, giving accurate feedback before the tutor. But the peer feedback gradually has slowed to a trickle, and lately we wait in fear for the tutor to dismantle our lessons. I still give comments on my peers' lessons, but lately a general atmosphere of feedback fear has pervaded the group.
Not really sure why this has happened ... a few factors may explain. Most of us in the group tend to be hard on ourselves. One guy kept giving mortifying feedback about his own lesson when the rest of the group was puzzled by it - we thought the lesson was OK. We tend to give balanced feedback to each other, but we generally avoid piercing blows. You know what I mean, saying what we think: straight up, honest, direct criticisms that say, "That part of the lesson sucked." We're all very "Asian" in the sense that criticisms like that ruin group face, and we'd rather keep the harmony in the group positive.
Thing is, though, the tutor goes straight for the throat every time. He will dismantle a lesson. If a lesson is below standard, he will skip praise, and spend the entire time talking about negatives. He will gloss over strengths, or dismiss them as not relevant. The words 'group face' are about as foreign to this guy as falafels are to Eskimos. He's completely, 100%, all about directness. Few of us in the group do this, but the tutor loves it. Trouble is, though, he's often right. As much as it sucks when he rakes us over the coals, the feedback is insightful and valuable.
So, often we brace ourselves for the tutor's bomb-dropping insights. Sure, we can have a crack or two at peer evaluations, but we're all waiting for what he says.
For our group, this less intimidating approach of peer feedback doesn't appear to work. The tutor doesn't encourage it, either. He dismantles us one-by-one, and doesn't ask for 2nd or 3rd opinions. Last time, my colleague and I were getting our bit, but the other two other people didn't say a word the entire time. Not a peep!
More frustrating today was the fact that I consulted with the tutor beforehand to plan the lesson, and later had him check the plan. But during the consulation, he didn't offer much in the way of suggestions. His attitude was more, "you're on your own". There was a major flaw in my lesson plan, on eliciting techniques (which he criticized me on). He could have called me to task on this earlier in the planning stage, rather than just gloss over it.
This tends to be an annoying CELTA trend. It is so difficult to utilize the *resource* of the tutors which we pay $1400US for. Why is this? At the best of times, help is given, but it's quite vague, and lacks any details or encouragement. At the worst of times, they leave us early and retreat to their office, where we literally have to drag them out for help. What for? I have never seen a tutor volunteer the slightest initiative in helping us. They want us to be independent and all that, and I agree, but their job is to coach us. A teacher trainer should be willing to coach, and not avoid working with his trainees.
I'm not in the best of moods today, as my latest lesson got dismantled and awarded a below standard. I agree with this grade, I don't dispute that. I also understand what went wrong, and how to correct in future. But I'm pissed off because I consulted with the tutor before, and he glossed over my lesson plan. In the plan was a big flaw: namely the lack of eliciting techniques and questions to students, which I later got criticized for. How to elicit from students was *not* an explicit topic we covered in the input sessions. Because of this, he could have called me to task on this, and offered tips to elicit *before* I delivered the lesson.
But enough complaining. I'm researching the net to find information on the skills I need more help with (eliciting and concept checking techniques). As well, I requested a teaching video from the tutor that I can watch, so I can see how eliciting is done by the pros. It's a while before I teach next, and I'm going to plan well in advance. When I see tutors, I'm going to pick their brains like crazy for feedback on the lesson plan. I will not be satisfied with glossy answers.
Steve |
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dyak
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 630
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:53 pm Post subject: my trainer done left me... |
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Ahh� those CELTA blues; I think you�ll be fine though, it sounds like you care enough to be a good teacher. In the last week of the course the trainers aren�t really supposed to help you, the most you�ll get out of them is a �that won�t work� or two. I wanted more help at that stage too but afterwards I realised, like many on the course, that it was because I was a week or so behind the (very steep) learning curve. You�re far better off asking your colleagues if it�s a supportive group.
Meanwhile, some gems from today�s word order task:
�Please put all rubbish provided in the bins.�
�The grenade removed the pin from the paratrooper carefully.�
Cheers. |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: my trainer done left me... |
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| Quote: |
| Ahh� those CELTA blues; I think you�ll be fine though, it sounds like you care enough to be a good teacher. |
Yo, thanks for the vote of confidence
| Quote: |
| In the last week of the course the trainers aren�t really supposed to help you, the most you�ll get out of them is a �that won�t work� or two. |
This is exactly right. Not only that, but when I suggested that future trainees have more chance to observe the tutors teach classes in action, I got a response like, "You guys were lucky to observe us at all, the last group had none of that." Before, in the office, he was grumbling about his lesson plan and the fact he had to teach today. I couldn't believe it!
Explicit models of how to teach are great, but it's surprising how much more you can learn by observing a pro in action.
As these guys are pros, yes they really are, I find it baffling how they don't want to pass on their knowledge and skills and help the trainees. What sort of teacher or trainer delights in having knowledge and not sharing it with a student who wants to learn it? When I taught before, I'd always go out of my way to help students who asked.
Even at the beginning of the course, during the steep learning curve, we still didn't get clear models of how to do the stuff they want. The head tutor, in my response for details on eliciting said, "We've been doing this stuff since day 1." Have we? I looked through my notes and discovered no section on that topic. OK, he's still right. We've been doing it implicitly since day 1.
The good part was that I had a chance to observe the pro in action. Watching him elicit and model new words was exactly what I needed, and things really clicked when I saw how it was done. I have a clear idea now about what he expects!
These breakthroughs are exactly what's needed to make the course work, but I find it frustrating in that the tutors don't want to set up conditions to make the breakthroughs. Very strange teaching philosophy these guys seem to have. I can't make heads or tails out of it, but I'm not going to to lose sleep over stuff like this.
Anyways, it's time for our latest tutorial where they decide if we're going to pass the course. I'm bracing for the worst but expecting the best.
Steve |
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RachelA_Broad
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 21
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hello all!
I think this has been one of the most helpful posts I have read in a long time...in that I am about to embark on my own expensive CELTA torture plan in Seville, Spain in November. One of the biggest problems I am sure I will be having is that I haven't taught a lot of English language specifically (though I have done a lot of economics tutoring) so I am nervous about grammar because I just speak, I really don't know why this and that is so. I have been thinking that I really need to get a good grammar book that really lays things out well, and maybe one that is even a decent read and lays things out from as reasonable a perspective as possible? Anyone have some good suggestions?
Thanks for your help!!! |
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dduck
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I use three ways to learn new grammar.
1. Buy books - I recommend Practical English Usage by Michael Swan. Also have a scan through this booklist:
http://www.developingteachers.com/reading.htm#new
2. Read the grammar notes at the end of the students books. If you don't have much time to prepare you can get by with just this.
3. Find a students' forum and try teaching the students English online. You'll also get a chance to see how other teachers explain grammar points. This is really invaluable!
Iain |
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dyak
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 630
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| As these guys are pros, yes they really are, I find it baffling how they don't want to pass on their knowledge and skills and help the trainees. What sort of teacher or trainer delights in having knowledge and not sharing it with a student who wants to learn it? |
It's a strange phenomenon amongst teachers; I can't understand it either. I know some teachers that will gladly pass on their knowledge, experience and even lesson plans, while some keep everything for themselves... and some will even quite happily take your plans, use them and give nothing back. It seems to go against the essence of it all.
As for pre-CELTA, I can't stress enough the importance of knowing the grammar, at least to the level where you know what an adjective, a noun, a verb and the names and constructions of all the tenses are because the students will...
And two grammar books I couldn't live without:
'Elementary English Grammar' - Collins Cobuild
'Advanced Learners' Grammar' - Longman
Cheers |
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