Job Discussion Forums

[Polly0607]

I know this is all very confusing, but maybe if you give us more information about you, it will be easier.

Where are you right now?
Are you coming to work in Mexico?
Are you married or may marry a Mexican?
What is your educational background?

This is my answer with no information:

If you plan to come to Mexico to work soon, you will apply for an FM3 once you are in Mexico and have a job offer. Forget about any of the other statuses, because you can't ask for them anyway. FM3 is step 1. If you are married to a Mexican, you still need an FM3.


What I'm getting at is this, don't try to figure it all out now. You probably only have one option anyway. Once you have been here for a while, you can see what other status you can apply for depending upon your situation at that time. Rules can also change for the different statuses, so don't assume too much. Immigration offices also vary from one place to another.


And... permanent residency or "inmigrado" is not the same as naturalization. Naturalization is citizenship. Inmigrado is not. I am told that the advantage of inmigrado is that you don't have to report to immigration annually any more.

[MELEE]

[J Sevigny]

Becoming a Mexican citizen is a process that ultimately involves Relaciones Exteriores, not immigration.

One way to do it is to live here a long time on an FM3, then an FM2, and eventually, you apply to be a citizen.

Another way is to marry a Mexican citizen, which I did. We married in the states, moved back to Mexico, registered our acta de matrimonio with the registro civil, and now we just have to wait a year or so more before I can become as Mexican as chiles rellenos.

According to Relaciones Exteriores (or at least what the lady at their office in Guadalajara told me) you have to have been living in the country for a minimum of two years before you can apply for citizenship. The process itself takes another year.

She was a little unclear about whether you have to have had your marriage registered in Mexico for two years or if you just have to be here for two years.

She mentioned that if you're here with the intention of becoming a citizen, you can�t leave the country for more than six months until the process is complete.

She was very careful to tell me that before you become a citizen here, you have to renounce your foreign citizenship and turn over your passport. She candidly admitted that such a step does nothing to your gringo-citizenship status because the US recognizes dual citizenships.

At the end of the day, what it means is that you have to give your US Passport to the Mexican government and then send off to the states for another copy.

Hope this is helpful.

[J Sevigny]

I know my last post is a bit long but I want to add something.

In Mexico, there's no equivalent to the US "green card." That is, there's no way you can get a piece of paper that allows you to work anyplace you want.

There's the FM3, which allows you to work at one specific job for a period of one year.

Then there's the independent FM3, which allows you to work at various companies but only within a specialized field, such as teaching.

I think there are about a dozen kinds of visas but nothing like a "work wherever you want" card.

[MELEE]

J
I think it is also important to add, that Imigrado, or permenat resident, doesn't grant any additional rights or privledges. You can easily see when traveling via air. Arrive in the US and there are two lines, Citizens and Permanent Residents in one and Tourists in another. Arrive in Mexico and its Citizens in one, Permanent Residents and Tourists in the other.


Also at most Relationes Exteriores offices, you do not hand over your previous passport. You officially renounce your other citizenship, but they don't take your passport off of you.

They only recently changed the marriage rules, it used to be married for 2 years, reside in Mexico at least six months, now married at least 2 years, reside in Mexico at least two years. It happened arround the same time that there was a public outcry at the number of naturalized Mexicans on the National Football team, but that's probably just a coincidence.

[Polly0607]

I think MELEE is right. They don�t ask you to hand over your passport anymore. If they do, I will refuse. I can�t hand over my only way to get out of the country if I had to get to Canada for a family emergency etc.

If I was asked to do that, I would get a lawyer.

Also, we haven�t mentioned that you have to have at least six months left on your FM3 when you apply for citizenship. That only leaves a small window of opportunity each year to apply. Sometimes it can take a while to get your FM3 back. That happened to me this year and the window started to close. I will now have to wait until spring.

I�ve been married to a Mexican for 10 years and living in Mexico continuously for the past 3 years. I still expect some complications (you never know) and hope everything will work out and I will get it in 2007.

[Samantha]

Ah yes, the complications. Did you switch to your married name as we tend to do up north in Canada or stay with your maiden name as is done here (and which pleases the Govt in this case)? I got a good lecture about that along with a set of instructions a mile long to follow. Also, I got told point blank that the forms on the internet are no good, rip, rip, and a whole new form set was handed to us, along with a generous dollop of bad attitude. Welcome to the new country!

[Polly0607]

I got married in Mexico ten years ago, so I was never given the option to change my name. This baffled Canadians, but it seems very reasonable to me.

All my documents from school, immigration, birth certificate, etc. are all in my maiden name, so I have no problems whatsoever. Women getting married should really consider leaving their names as is. It�s up to you, but paperwork is getting more difficult everywhere and it has made things much easier for me.

As for the Internet, I also suggest a person going directly to the office and asking for the forms and a list of requirements. Assume that those are more "correct". They don't like it when people say, "well on the Internet it says this". You are challenging their authority and they don't tolerate this with foreigners. Nationals may get away with it.

The best thing is to be nice and comply with as much as you can. If you can't comply with some of the paperwork, just be nice and explain the situation. Immigration will make a decision that may or may not be in your favour, but getting mad or yelling will get you kicked out fast.

I have never had problems with immigration even when they could have fined me for something. They tend to overlook it if you are nice. Remember, in Mexico, it is more important to be nice than right.

[Samantha]

I couldn't agree with your advice more. Immigration department has always polite in my dealings over the past 6 years including the marriage permission. However we found the attitude of the lady "judge" at SRE, who is in charge of submitting the naturalization application, less than cordial to say the least. She copped a definite "tude" for whatever reason, from the moment we walked through the door. Noone was challenging her authority, believe me. We know who is in charge in this country and it isn't us. She was just looking for things to pick at starting with the forms from the internet (where it states you can start the process ahead of time...yeh right!) and she moved on from there. It was not a pleasant experience and her office isn't exactly around the corner that we can pop back anytime we like.

I have heard of this in another area of Mexico from friends so this isn't isolated. In fact there is one lady in parts south who has made a lucrative business out of taking people (mostly retirees) in and leading them through the jungle toward naturalization in her State. That's the thing about Mexico; you never know quite what to expect no matter what your demeanor. Viva!

[Polly0607]

Are you still going through the naturalization process or is it over? I am wondering how long it took, etc.

I am planning on going to the local SRE office as soon as classes are over just to see what's what. I�m not sure if they will do it here in Toluca, though it is the official SRE "delegaci�n" for Mexico state. I may get lucky and find someone nice, but it could go either way. I suspect they will try to send me to Mexico City, but I will politely insist that I can't go there because I can't leave my children for that long.

See what happens. Maybe if I bring the kids with me, they will speed things along to get rid of us. It works with customs at the airport!

[mep3]

Thanks everyone very much for all of the information. Extremely helpful and the friendliness of the people on this thread is one incentive for me to come to Mexico.

Re. the earlier request to clarify my situation:

I'm 40 years old, I'm in China now, and going through a long process of considering whether to move to Mexico or stay here. My questions don't concern what my status would be when I go to Mexico, as I know the FM3 would be my main option at that point. But I definitely do want to think about what my options would be later for staying long-term, because that's one of the factors I want to weigh between here and China in making my decision.

What I am really looking at in that regard is what my ability would be to stay in the country permanently, because I plan to do this whole gig long term. It's a factor in my considerations, as in China it is rather difficult. It looks like it's probably easier in Mexico.

I wouldn't want to depend on retiring from work on a non-working FM3, as I may or may not have the requisite funds at that point (e.g., maybe I'd have funds that would yield me $800/ month income or something like that rather than the requisite $1,100, and I'd do a little private tutoring on the side, whatever. Or maybe I'd have enough interest to live very modestly at that point even though it would be a little below the amount required to qualify for the non-working FM3. I don't know enough about the economy there yet to give solid numbers. I'm just giving an example to explain that I wouldn't want to rely on qualifying for a non-working FM3).

Nationalization seems like an option, but the idea of renouncing my U.S. citizenship makes me uneasy even though they don't take my passport. It just seems like doing that could cause some problems somehow someway. Aside from that, even though I like living abroad for various lifestyle-related reasons, I do love my country as well, and I don't really like the idea of renouncing it in that way.

I'd like to learn more about the Inmigrado status. People have said on this thread that it doesn't give you any extra benefits. Does it allow you to stay in Mexico without working, or without working enough hours for an FM3?

Thanks ..... Mep

[Samantha]

Michael, Maybe you could speak to your nearest Mexican Consulate but honestly I don't think there is anything they can possibly tell you that we haven't told you here. And we are only a teachers discussion forum Google around (Google is our friend), but pay close attention to the dates on some of the websites. Some are severely outdated.

This has all pretty much been noted in the thread but anyway...Information I can locate indicates that you have to prove even more foreign income for a non-working FM2 than you do for a non-working FM3. It is based on the minimum wage in Mexico City and states that the minimum income one must prove (income from abroad remember) is something like 250 times the minimum wage in Mexico City for the FM3 and 400 times for the FM2. You obviously should be able to live on less than that coming here as a teacher. Again, you will arrive on the FMT. Then you get a working FM3 or FM2, but like we mentioned there is no advantage to an FM2 these days now that you can apply for naturalization after 5 years on an FM3. It costs more and has restrictions on your time out of Mexico. There is no way to live in Mexico legally without proving income except on a Tourist card (FMT) for up to 180 days at a time. When you get a working FM3, that makes your status legal and you don't have to prove $1100 or whatever the current amount is that retirees prove this year. They assume you will make ends meet at the job you are doing I suppose.

[delacosta]

I thought that one of hte advantages of one of the possible FM2's is that you can work wherever you want?
Is that not possible? A co-worker changed over for that reason, but later regretted it because his US imported car was now illegal.

[Samantha]

The teacher I knew on an FM2 still had to get permission and file papers for the school we were at. Maybe somethings changed, but I think I would investigate an FM3 Independiente before I would go the FM2 route.

[MELEE]