Job Discussion Forums

Deconstructor · Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Posts: 775 Location: Montreal

There are many non-native speakers of English who do an excellent job as teachers. The bottom line is that if someone feels comfortable enough with English and can virtually express any thought in a coherent manner--albeit somewhat slowly since second language production is never totally spontaneous for them--I don't see why they can't be excellent teachers. In fact speaking slowly is a plus at least for lower level students.

Where I work there are Arab, Iranian, Argentinian, Armenian, French, and Bulgarian teachers for whom English is a foreign language. As far as I know they're doing a great job. After all, just because one is a native in no way guarantees being a competent teacher.

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:50 am Post subject:

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

well, i just recognized it Wink

...sorry

Jetgirly · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject:

Jetgirly--

Problem is, they don't agree with your statement (or my assessment). They think that since they've been admitted to an American MA program, their English is good enough to teach others how to speak it.

In reality, if their English was that good, they wouldn't have to take ESL classes here...

Jetgirly · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741

If they're up to it, refer them to this website (or just look at it yourself)

http://www.apollo.ucalgary.ca/eslrw/node/32

and check out the profile of Sonny. A prof I know is doing research into language acquisition in immigrants, and she's found that students who have a strong foundation in L1 are able to function at the university level with a GRADE FIVE vocabulary. You'll see that in this example Sonny's vocab is at a Grade 8 level (as he writes his Grade 12 graduating examinations). [Conversely, the weakest post-secondary performers are those who learned L2 from a very young age and don't have a solid foundation in their L1 / language spoken at home. ]

Academic success is often more closely tied to L1 than L2. You can't teach English with a Grade 5 vocabulary.

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject:

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:13 am Post subject:

I'm just saying that if you require Hispanic immigrants to study in "English-Only" classrooms to the detriment of their L1 development, their chances of succeeding in post-secondary education would be less, according to what Jetgirly posted.

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

The Calgary site takes three things into account, including age of entry into the host country, length of residence in the host country, and current vocabulary and reading comprehension.

There are other matters not considered, such as the contact the child has with L2 speakers in his community and at school. Note this comment from the Calgary site.

In the case of elementary and junior high arrivals, it seems to make sense to promote English as the dominant language for school and thought. The youngest arrivals have time on their side and we believe it is possible to help these students find their way out the risk zone just in time by grade 12.

The truth is that those who arrived in the host country at elementary level are some years below puberty and therefore able to acquire their new language as a second L1 and not an L2.

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Interesting..

I'd like to come back to that evaluation of a non-native speaker of English and the level "INTERMEDIATE" to stick to the topic.

Jizzo T. Clown

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Jizzo, sorry if you feel that I've misunderstood your "simple stating" before. I appologize, if I've gone off topic there above.
However, I do agree with you that the ones that are "not proficient" in English should not teach it as "anyone else" (from English speaking countries and disguised under that CELTA or any other teaching cert).

SueH · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1022 Location: Northern Italy

It's horses for courses; all over the world non-native speakers teach various languages. I've taught beginners Italian at evening classes in the UK and currently teaching it to a UK businessman here in Italy. I am aware of my limitations though, but having grown up in Italy more years ago than I care to mention at least my accent is good. We are talking of teaching beginners here. If somebody has an unrealistic view of their own level that, I think, is dangerous.

A fellow teacher in the UK, an Italian native used to teach Italian at evening class whilst she was also studying English. She went on to do the CELTA and teach English, but then she was a proficient and active learner and I remember a bi-lingual conversation (even in the same sentence - fun!) in the pub discussing differences in meaning: manky v. grotty and so forth. That sounds like a different level of command of language than your 'upper intermediate'.