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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Unreasonable Request from Student |
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| organix wrote: |
This girl is brilliant and I have no doubt she will make it into one of her chosen universities, but it just seems unreasonable to ask this of me. She is a "special" student who mainly works at home on her own. She does not attend classes with the rest of her "classmates". Thanks. |
So, since you hardly see her, how can you calim she is a "brilliant" student? Did she ask you to sign a statement to the effect "I am your most brilliant student"?
Seriously, do signaturers from TEFLers on recommendation letters open the doors to universities anywhere in the world? Then I think this is a flawed system! These students should have to pass formal entrance exams and be interviewed by appointed examinators. How is she going to prove you are a real techer? Oh so your signature says so? Well, even admission to Disneyland isn't to be had so cheaply! This girl probably doesn't really know what it takes to enrol at a western varsity! |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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I'm with you vikdk, I don't see the disagreement at all, sounds like you agree with me, thanks 
And relative, I have not been in china all that long, but I have been on thisd earth quite a while, and people are manipulativer the world over. I have to be in china to be manipulated?
I don't get your logic but ok, whatever you say relative. Take care all  |
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DistantRelative
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Vik Wrote:
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| duhhhhhhhhhhhh - but you and Nathan almost agree - the only difference, I can detect, in your post is that you suggest the task could be done for a fee:!: |
Nathan and I aren't even in the same ball park with regards to our advice on this issue. You don't hear me advocating kicking the girl to the curb.
Nathan: I don't much care whether you get my logic or not. Charging for one's services is not a difficult concept.
Nathan Wrote:
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| If you give her what she wants, she will just wontinue under the dilusion that being special gives her some exalted position in society, and that she can and likely should get more consideration and help then others. This is of course BS, better she find it out now then later, that she's no better then anyone else, and if she doesn't learn to pull her own weight, she's gonna have a hard time in life. |
Your bitter, callous attitude toward this young lady is unwarranted.
After you've been here awhile maybe you'll grow to understand that quality individuals encourage their gifted students rather than subject them to the Nathan Rahl school of hard knocks.
Vik Wrote:
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| Distant - hope you don't pick on students the same way as you go after Nathan - at least hear the boy out before you lay in the boot |
I didn't go after him, I heard him out, and I simply disagreed, and I certainly didn't lay any boots to him in the process, get your facts straight.
Maybe you should take your own advice with regards to your attitude toward Roger 
Zhu hao,
Shawn |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| After you've been here awhile maybe you'll grow to understand that quality individuals encourage their gifted students rather than subject them to the Nathan Rahl school of hard knocks. |
yes I will surely come to understand how tough a life those children of party officials have it 
When living in the states her carrying on in the good ol' CPC manner will surely be an advantage rather than hinderence - after all we Loa wai are often far to mild with cabbies, waiter/waitresses, teachers and all those other "small" folk who have that job to serve
PS distant - I don't think you have to hang on Nathan's words in the literal sense - since I think the style of that naughty boy's writing could well be described as tongue in cheek 
Roger - who is Roger 
By the way Nathan I see Steppenwolf is also in your camp - you've hit the jackpot today  |
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DistantRelative
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Vik Wrote:
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| yes I will surely come to understand how tough a life those children of party officials have it |
Precisely why my advice to the OP was to charge a fee for his/her services.
Another thing I might add, although not exclusive (This young lady sounding like a prime example), my experience has been that often many of the more well-to-do and priveleged prove to be the laziest of learners, while the less fortunate tend to work harder and be more appreciative of any opportunity provided them.
Had this young lady been the latter I would have suggested another course of action to the OP.
In this instance it sounds as if she's self-motivated and working hard.
In any case I stand by my original statement that a quality individual will always encourage a gifted student, no matter what their financial situation.
I for one haven't observed anything tongue in cheek with regards to Nathans style of writing. IMO foot in mouth best describes it.
Zhu hao,
Shawn |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Well distant - as person with all the facts at his finger tips, and obviously an expert on how the big-cats live it up, while their poor children grow up to suffer - it sounds like you would make an excellent social-worker - after all how better to teach a rich priveliged person a lesson than charge 'em a fee!!!!!
Or am I being tongue in cheek
Last edited by vikdk on Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Ah ha ha ha ha, now that was funny vikdk  |
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smalls
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 143
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I would get a hold of the student, set-up a time where they can come in and go over one of the applications and fill it out together (a teacher could always fill one out before hand - bit of review, rough draft, whatever) - only eight more to go - like others said, she could work on them while you are doing something else in the office - can always jump in and help out or even finish them if he/she is really struggling.
I think teachers should really help out those rare and shining students, (not that they should ignore the rest, but the average student isn't looking for the extra help) but at the same time, teach them a bit of responsibility. I can't count the number of impressive students who would come to me a day or two before an exam begging for help - when asked how long they knew, many would say over a week - procrastination, at least in my opinion, is a major problem in China - everything can be taken care of at the last minute (often it isnt) |
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Hendahu
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| The Chinese people have no sense of personal boundries. That is not right or wrong, just the truth. So this student is not being rude, She is just being Chinese. The only real answer is this, do you want to do this or not? If you can help her, fine. I do agree you can invite her to share the work load. 10 does seem excessive. If you think it is too much work, just be honest with her and tell her you do not have the time. She will have to accept it. Do one as an example and let her see how the real english speaker would do it. She can copy your original work...another Chinese trait that is widespread. Not a judgement, just an observation. |
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WordUp
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Tell her to fill them out.. You'll sign it.. Let her do the work.. Simple as that. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| smalls wrote: |
I would get a hold of the student, set-up a time where they can come in and go over one of the applications and fill it out together (a teacher could always fill one out before hand - bit of review, rough draft, whatever) - only eight more to go - like others said, she could work on them while you are doing something else in the office - can always jump in and help out or even finish them if he/she is really struggling.
I think teachers should really help out those rare and shining students, (not that they should ignore the rest, but the average student isn't looking for the extra help) but at the same time, teach them a bit of responsibility. I can't count the number of impressive students who would come to me a day or two before an exam begging for help - when asked how long they knew, many would say over a week - procrastination, at least in my opinion, is a major problem in China - everything can be taken care of at the last minute (often it isnt) |
(Standard qualifier about working in Japan rather than China)
I can see how the situation the OP described would be annoying. But as the post quoted above suggests, bring the girl back to your office and show her how to complete the evaluation by doing one for her. Then explain that you'll help her by proof reading the other eight after she finishes them.
Of course, as also noted above, I would refuse to be bound by any last minute deadlines. |
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Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Ah, the quandaries we FTs find ourselves in while shilly-shallying over the demands of children with links to the all powerful CCP. Such a simple situation: get the kid to do it after showing her how on one form. If she is so brilliant, and all forms are nearly identical, I'm sure that she could teach her servant at home to copy the correct information into the correct boxes, thus leaving her more time to sit about and be brilliant. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:45 am Post subject: |
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yes I will surely come to understand how tough a life those children of party officials have it
When living in the states her carrying on in the good ol' CPC manner will surely be an advantage rather than hindrance |
it would be doubtful that she ..herself was a member of the CPC as they usually do not travel overseas as it is seen as a deterrent to their career...and also the idea that a CPC job pays a lot..is also a fallacy.. CPC members are expected to sacrifice a lot of time and donations for any and all emergency related situations as well as donations for the party...they are also expected to be the first in line to volunteer in emergencies.. |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:52 am Post subject: |
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You provide her with 10 original letters of reccommendation, all identical.
Leave the rest up to her.
That is standard practice. |
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andrew_gz
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 502
Location: Reborn in the PRC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: |
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That's interesting cj.
I thought there were more Western educated Party members.
What about the children?
How many of those are? (or trying to?)
I'll have to ask the girlfriend.
She's a Party member.
Although in 6 months she has only attended a single event (grudgingly)
Obviously she's not trying to make it work for her.
Perhaps she should? |
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