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| Is PSU a credible institution, even after this scandal? |
| YES |
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| NO |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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ahk3ahk3
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: |
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[quote="007"]
| Queen of Sheba wrote: |
| ....I have heard from a graduate of Oxford, that Oxford allows their BA graduates to purchase their MA from the University, with no thesis or coursework. How decent is that in and of itself? Can anyone confirm this practice? |
Oxbridge grads can buy their MA's without putting in any additional work:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/492180.stm
Education Minister Malcolm Wicks has backed calls for Oxford and Cambridge universities to stop selling masters degrees to their graduates.
In response to a question in the House of Commons, he said "the public have the right to expect that across the board of British universities, a BA, a BSc or an MA really means something".
But he added that the awarding of MAs was "essentially a matter for the university".
Mr Wicks' comments follow a call last week from the university standards' watchdog for an end to "unearned" degrees.
At presents, students graduating from Oxford and Cambridge with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree can acquire a Master of Arts (MA) without undertaking any further academic work - they simply need to pay a small administration charge.
'Title not wholly deserved'
Obtaining the same qualification at other universities means a year's postgraduate work, with the likelihood of assessed work, dissertations and exams.
The Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education wants to remove the anomaly of unearned degrees and to create a standardised framework for qualifications.
Mr Wicks was responding to comments made by Labour MP for Cambridge, Anne Campbell, who said she had an MA from Cambridge, but said: "Many of us feel that this title is not wholly deserved."
He said: "Having in my earlier career taught a two excellent British universities, when I taught postgraduate students, I know that when they got their masters degree they'd actually studied for it, worked very hard and earned it." |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:55 am Post subject: |
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007: There are no high schools in Britain. The term is an American one.
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| Indeed the vast majority of the Saudi cabinet has always had degrees from first rate US and UK universities. |
The articles above will give you some insight as to why...
Regarding Oxford and "MAs", so far as I know Oxford - and a number of universities affiliated with it in Britain and Ireland - do indeed grant MAs to their BA graduates without their having to do any additional work. This is the reason why, in these universities, bona fide Master's degree courses in arts-related fields are called M.Phil or M. Litt courses. Presumably, well-informed employers in Britain and Ireland know that an Oxford "MA" is meaningless, although employers abroad are probably less aware of the situation. |
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fishjock

Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 39 Location: 9th and Hennepin, Cochadebajo de los Gatos
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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I received an MA in Political Science for my undergraduate degree from a Scottish university and then went on to do an MLitt as a postgraduate degree at the same institution.
Because my university had 'ancient' status I think that is the reason some places dish out MAs to their undergraduates. Regardless of the course you studied at my university, an entrance pre-requisite was a qualification in a foreign language. Apparently this has something to do with keeping certain universities aloof from the rabble.
As far as employers go, it seemed that in the UK everyone was well aware of the 'value' of my qualifications but in the far east, people were more interested in my MA. This gave the impression that I was a scholar and therefore a good teacher. Nobody knew or cared what the MLitt thingy was. |
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007

Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 2684 Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| 007: There are no high schools in Britain. The term is an American one. |
The term 'high school' is used in Britain, and there are plenty of High Schools in Britain ranging from A to W (by name).
A list of some popular UK high schools:
- James Gillespie High school : http://www.jghs.edin.sch.uk/
(comprehensive High School, educating pupils aged 11 to 18 years of age.)
- Harrogate High School : http://www.harrogatehigh.co.uk/index.html
- Manchester High School for Girls: http://www.manchesterhigh.co.uk/
- Queens park High School (A Specialist Visual Art College) :
http://www.school-portal.co.uk/GroupHomepage.asp?GroupID=50995
In my last post, I meant by 'standard' the 'discipline' and administrative organization, and culture of education, and was not comparing the content of the curriculum or the programs of PSU with that of a High school in Britain.
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| ..Which suggests you don't know much about High Schools in Britain. |
I think, I know little bit about High Schools in Britain. And, I think, a 'standard' of a High school in Britain is much better than the 'standard' of PSU. |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The term 'high school' is used in Britain, and there are plenty of High Schools in Britain ranging from A to W (by name). |
So you googled a bit for a few 'high schools' in Britain. I can assure you that the term 'high school' is USAnian. |
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scot47

Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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In Scotland the term "High School" is used to refer to a Grammar School. Our own beloved Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr G. Brown was a pupil at one of these - Kirkcaldy High School.
The term is NOT used in Scotia to refer to institutions of higher learning.
As for the lands south of Tweed and Solway I know nothing and care less. |
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007

Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 2684 Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| .. Our own beloved Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr G. Brown was a pupil at one of these - Kirkcaldy High School... |
I guess, the beloved, his Excellency, the Chancellor Mr G. Brown, is the future prime minister of Britain.
definitely, I will give him my vote.
Correct me Mr Scot47 if I am wrong, if Brown wins the next election and become PM, I think he will be the 3rd PM from Scottish constituencies. (1st one was from 1922 � 1923, and the 2nd one from 1963 � 1964, The Rt Hon John Smith, who was Labour MP for North Lanarkshire and Monklands East would almost certainly have become Prime Minister had he not died prematurely of a heart attack on 12 th May 1994).
Some argue that if Brown becomes Prime Minister, he will head up a UK Executive that effectively makes England a Scottish electoral dictatorship.
What do you think Scot47? |
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007

Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 2684 Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Cleopatra"]
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| .. I can assure you that the term 'high school' is USAnian. |
In other words, the term �High School� was Made in USA, and exported to UK in the 19th century, by DHL!
Yes, Cleopatra, in the 21st century everything is USAnian. We are in the �new world order� with two axes only (axis of Good vs Axis of Evil), in other words, �With US� or �Against US�, no third party!! And no neutrality!! So, from which camp are you??
The funny thing, is that even the Tomato ketchup and frozen sausages, which are sold in Saudi shops are also Made in USA�.so these days, everything is �USAnians�, expect the Tamiiz (bread) which is �Afghanistanian�.  |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Was that last post intended to be amusing and bitingly sarcastic, ABBA? Because to me it just sounded.... odd.
This should be side-splitting...
[/quote] is that even the Tomato ketchup and frozen sausages, which are sold in Saudi shops are also Made in USA
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Really? I wouldn't know, being as I never buy such products. Anything interesting to contribute? |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: Oxford Congregation rejects 'reform' package |
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One piece of good news. The proposed change to Oxford University's Constitution that would have taken power from the academics and given it to an unrepresentative clique of 'businessmen', who would no doubt approve many more deals of the Prince Sultan variety, has been roundly defeated.
http://education.independent.co.uk/news/article2023851.ece |
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dmb

Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397
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Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| In Scotland the term "High School" is used to refer to a Grammar School. |
Do grammar schools still exist? I believe the state system has primary and secondary schools. And the public school system(that's the private schools to N Americans.) has prep school, junior and senior school. |
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Queen of Sheba
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397
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Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| In America, 'high schools' should be eradicated, for they serve no good purpose other than encouraging kids to be disinterested, clique-seeking, brand name wearing jocks. The only way to get a real high school education in the US is to drop out, get a job, go to an alternative school, or get a GED, and eventually backpack around Europe for a while. Following the norm in the US equates following the lemmings off the hill. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| I have heard many claim that American High Schools are an excellent preparation for life, since nowhere else do you have such an intensive induction into living in a dysfunctional society. |
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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't that what it is supposed to do everywhere? Isn't the main purpose of secondary/high school and college/university mostly about keeping the hoards of young occupied for much of the day to keep them out of the job market and off the streets?
I figured this out once I realized that the stuff covered in the classrooms was really not much use once one was out in the world and actually working. Ever find anything useful in a linguistics or teaching methodology book? (my answer is pretty much 'no') Even in a practical subjects such as accounting - the first thing once you get an actual job is that they tell you to forget everything the textbooks say - ignore the stuff in that silly CPA exam that we made you take - and here is how things are really done. You actually learn everything you need to know in the first semester of Intro to Acct.
And I'm speaking in generalities here, nothing to do with any particular country or its educational system.
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007

Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 2684 Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Isn't that what it is supposed to do everywhere? Isn't the main purpose of secondary/high school and college/university mostly about keeping the hoards of young occupied for much of the day to keep them out of the job market and off the streets? |
Do you consider schools of today are safe for students and teachers, compared, for examples with schools in 10-20 years ago??
| Quote: |
I figured this out once I realized that the stuff covered in the classrooms was really not much use once one was out in the world and actually working. Ever find anything useful in a linguistics or teaching methodology book? (my answer is pretty much 'no') Even in a practical subjects such as accounting - the first thing once you get an actual job is that they tell you to forget everything the textbooks say - ignore the stuff in that silly CPA exam that we made you take - and here is how things are really done. You actually learn everything you need to know in the first semester of Intro to Acct.
And I'm speaking in generalities here, nothing to do with any particular country or its educational system. |
Do you think today's students are getting a better education than you got?
Last edited by 007 on Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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