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prof
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Location: Boston/China
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 Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: Re: One more time |
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| vancanman wrote: |
Well, this kind of thread can and does go on forever.
I will need to bow out, as I am busy getting work and contracts at rates equal to or higher than anyone else out there.
By the way there are many ways to break the law regardless of what paper you are holding. Thought I'd point out that basic fact.
The other poster sounds as if he works for the CIA in predicting such dire consequenses. Typical American.
It's interesting that uni is such hard work. Wonder what the hourly rate is?
I respect the fact at least some Chinese schools hire who they believe can do the job whether or not the applicant holds this or that paper. As far as the FEC goes, I concur with the other non degree poster. In fact in any given country, for any given job, deciding if a foreigner is an "expert" is a subjective decision made by the appropriate authorities.
Interestingly enough, I have always earned the highest salary levels, either equal to or higher than my peers. Good enough for me. |
You are at the bottom the EFL food-chain.
You can go on and boast all you want. But you won't ever get the best positions and will constantly need to 'perform' on cue to land work.
You can't teach EFL in Korea or Japan and as China's urban centers get more sophisticated (with students who are actually spending their time IN SCHOOL wanting a teacher who also understands and appreciates the importance of time IN SCHOOL) you will lose out there as well.
Do your students know you you don't have a degree? Do their parents? Do the authorities know? I doubt it. There have been numerous stories about people like you in the Chinese newspapers. They warn students to learn their foreign teachers backgrounds.
CIA? Hardly. But one call from a competing Language Mill or a student or fellow teacher to the PSB will lead to you being fined and potentially deported and blacklisted.
But you're doing all right, man! |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Im new here, but still feel compelled to chip in with my opinion regarding the degree/no degree thing.
If you have a degree, great, well done...but if you dont and you have ability and are out there doing it..then well done to you too!
I dont have a degree....when I went through the education system, not so many of my peers went on to University - maybe this was my generation or maybe the demographic of where I grew up...
Ive been working for over 20 years in a variety of roles, and I have met lots of graduates in the last 5 years, who frankly, have an incredibly poor understanding of language, math and social skills - so a degree doesnt guarantee many things when applied to the world of work.
Equally, the volunteer placement I have just finished in Hainan, consisted of 15 volunteers, some with degrees, some without, some with teaching experience, some without...and some who are currently qualified teachers in the UK.
Out of all those candidates, I am the one going back with a firm job offer to teach, after COMPLETING my volunteer stint (most people didnt show the commitment to finish).
Maybe I wont go on to have the highest paid job, in the best school...but I believe the best job is the one where you can make the most difference, and get the most satisfaction....
I dont wish to knock anyone who has great qualifications - but I dont think they mean too much when you walk through the door of that class for the first time... and a great qualification does not make a great teacher. |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Nick and others: China must be one of the last places in the world to let those without any form of qualification loose in a classroom. I agree that a degree shows nothing of a person's ability to teach: in many cases, a BEd doesn't either. It took me my first 2 years out of uni in my early 20's to run a proper classroom where students were engaged in meaningful activities.
However, a line needs to be drawn somewhere. For China, that line is increasingly a degree. So, as unjust as you may feel it is, if you're in ESL for more than just a few years and a few laughs, you will need to get some base level tertiary qualifications: like your own teachers had, whatever you thought of them. Many occupations, and certainly all professions [the oldest one aside] need formal training and certification. Chinese kids deserve that much.
I would have to add that, as a BA, BEd, Dip.TESOL with 10 years in ESL and another 15 in "Shakespeare for the Homeys" English, nothing miffed me more than seeing a "teacher" with a Diploma in Computing, semi-literate and specialising in "Hangman", drawing the same salary as me. My students and Chinese colleagues certainly knew the difference, but to the school bean counters we were both just white faces, dealing in pointless gibberish, and only kept on because we attracted paying clients!!
Rant over. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| So while they used to be able to undercut qualified teachers who refused to scam students, they now find themselves in competition with hundreds of people just like themselves. |
There is a problem in this line of thought when a poster considers a mere BA as a qualification....BA holders have the same qualifications as non-BA holders and is just a criteria by which to bolster confidence in a system that hire unqualified folk to work in an industry primarily used for marketing...only those with teaching certs are truly near the criteria by which a international standard of teaching qualification is achieved..
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| Do your students know you you don't have a degree? Do their parents? Do the authorities know? |
Most students are aware of the lack of qualifications of their instructors..and see them as mostly entertainment..but this doesn't mean that they learn nothing..on the contrary..the FT provides insight into other cultural characteristics....and the fact that many of the teachers here were 7-11 clerks doesn't seem to phase them...after all..it is the cultural of the Big Gulp that they seek....not excellence in scholastics...
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| But one call from a competing Language Mill or a student or fellow teacher to the PSB will lead to you being fined and potentially deported and blacklisted |
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This is one of the most ridiculous statements made...if the visa is in..the paperwork has been filed and, information from personal sources refute a RP issued by the PSB....
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| In my 12 years I've seen good and bad teachers with or without degrees. I've been a DOS, HFT, and ran my own consulting business. Just think of Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates. |
Think of a buffoon..Steve Jobs..Bill Gates...and if you need someone to tell you to your face..come have diner with me in Beijing..bring Prof with you... |
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