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tararu
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 494
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 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| It is only in the last few decades that the majority of western society has come to really question their leaders' motives. Conspiracy theories have always existed. However, it is only recently that they have plagued the mind of the average Joe Blow. |
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Laura777
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Istanbul Turkey
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Western society? what about Eastern or Middle Eastern? Do you forget the ancient Greeks or Romans? Ancient Chinese or Japanese? Indian?
I would not say that average people didnt question all leaders in the course of history. Perhaps we do not hear of it. As it isnt recorded in writings of ancient man.
Western society is NOT the whole of the world. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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A translation of Dink's last article
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At first when an investigation was launched against me for insulting Turkishness I did not feel troubled. This was not the first time...
I had complete trust in what I'd written and what my intentions had been.
Once the prosecutor had the chance to evaluate the text of my editorial as a whole, not that single sentence which made no sense by itself, he would understand that I had no intention of "insulting Turkishness" and this comedy would come to an end. I was sure of myself. But surprise! A lawsuit was filed...
In covering every hearing the newspapers, editorials and television programmes all referred to how I had said that "the blood of the Turk is poisonous".
I may see myself as frightened as a pigeon, but I know that in this country people do not touch pigeons
Each time, they were adding to my fame as "the enemy of the Turk".
In the corridors of the courthouse, the fascists physically attacked me with racist curses.
They bombarded me with insults. Hundreds of threats hailed down for months by phone, email and post - increasing all the time.
I persevered through all this with patience awaiting the decision that would acquit me.
Then the truth would prevail and all those people would be ashamed of what they had done.
'False information'
My only weapon was my sincerity. But when the decision came out my hopes were crushed. From then on, I was in the most distressed situation a person could possibly be in.
The memory of my computer is filled with angry, threatening lines sent by citizens
The judge had made a decision in the name of the "Turkish nation" and had it legally registered that I had "denigrated Turkishness." I could have coped with anything but this.
In my understanding, the denigration of a person on the basis of any difference - ethnic or religious - is racism, and there was no way this could ever be forgiven...
Those who tried to single me out and weaken me have succeeded. With the false information they oozed into society, they created a significant segment of the population who view Hrant Dink as someone who "insults Turkishness".
The memory of my computer is filled with angry, threatening lines sent by citizens from this sector...
How real are these threats? To be honest, it is impossible for me to know for sure.
What is truly threatening and unbearable for me is the psychological torture I place myself in. The question that really gets to me, is: 'What are these people thinking about me?'
Unfortunately I am now better-known than before and I feel people looking at me, thinking: 'Oh, look, isn't he that Armenian guy?'
I am just like a pigeon, equally obsessed by what goes-on on my left and right, front and back. My head is just as mobile and fast.
'Heaven and hell
What did Foreign Minister Gul say? Or Justice Minister Cicek? 'There is no need to exaggerate about Article 301 (on insulting Turkishness). Has anyone actually been put in prison?'
As if going to prison was the only way to pay the price. This is the price. This is the price.
2007 will probably be an even harder year for me
Do you ministers know the price of making someone as scared as a pigeon?
What my family and I have been through has not been easy. I have considered leaving this country at times...
But leaving a 'boiling hell' to run to a 'heaven' is not for me. I wanted to turn this hell into heaven.
We stayed in Turkey because that was what we wanted - and out of respect for the thousands of people here who supported me in my fight for democracy...
I am now applying to the European Court of Human Rights. I don't know how long the case will take, but what I do know is that I will continue living here in Turkey until the case is finalised.
And if the court rules in my favour I will be very happy and will never have to leave my country.
2007 will probably be an even harder year for me. The court cases will continue, new ones will be initiated and God knows what kind of additional injustices I will have to face.
I may see myself as frightened as a pigeon, but I know that in this country people do not touch pigeons.
Pigeons can live in cities, even in crowds. A little scared perhaps, but free. |
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tararu
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Laura said, "Western society is NOT the whole of the world."
Really, oh thanks so much for telling me that. I'm comforted by your obviously superior knowledge.
Laura said, "Western society? what about Eastern or Middle Eastern? Do you forget the ancient Greeks or Romans? Ancient Chinese or Japanese? Indian?"
I specifically said western society for that reason smarty pants. Eventhough there have been many periods of enlightenment in which men (I use this word for a reason) have questioned society at large, generally these people were rich men from the ruling classes. In Roman times, it was the senate which overthrew caesars while the plebs were being entertained in colleseums.
There has never been a point in the history of man when humanity has been as distrustful of the powers that be. Blame it on the advancement of global communication especially the internet if you will |
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thrifty
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1665
Location: chip van
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe that Dink was murdered by agent(s) of unnamed foreign powers who are secretly trying to keep Turkey down. |
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yaramaz
Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2384
Location: Not where I was before
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Damn those Eritreans. |
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Laura777
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Istanbul Turkey
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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and why exactly are you specifying western society?
How are you to know that man was not suspicious of whomever ruled in ancient times. Just because everything in the world is now presented in internet form does not mean that these feelings didnt exist before. Because you have now data you state your opinions on this. Cant you imagine that it may be possible?
Are you irritated with me for discussing your opinions? Is this why you are thanking me? In such a sarcastic manner?
Is that really necessary Tararu? |
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tararu
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Just because there isn't a mass of evidence to the contrary, l don't see why l should rely on blind faith.
The reason that l got shirty was that the tone of your writing is condescending. If you wish to imply that someone is ignorant and that by pointing out that ignorance infer your own superior intellect, then perhaps you may find that aforementioned someone less than friendly. |
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runeman
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Tararu wrote:
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| Even though there have been many periods of enlightenment in which men (I use this word for a reason) have questioned society at large, generally these people were rich men from the ruling classes. |
What about Jesus? |
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tararu
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| True. However, the Catholic church would be a good example of my point as you would attest to. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Spartacus? |
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gabes65
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
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Laura777
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Istanbul Turkey
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| tararu wrote: |
Just because there isn't a mass of evidence to the contrary, l don't see why l should rely on blind faith.
The reason that l got shirty was that the tone of your writing is condescending. If you wish to imply that someone is ignorant and that by pointing out that ignorance infer your own superior intellect, then perhaps you may find that aforementioned someone less than friendly. |
I was not implying ignorance or anything like. I was stating what I often find that many seem to feel that western society is the superior world. That there are no others which have great knowledge or philosophy about life and politics. You misread my message or misinterpreted what I was attempting to write.
I wouldnt say again that it is blind faith. I would say that man has proven to be the same and act the same guided by the same emotions over and over again. We can find this in history...
So by that assumption I would say again that people have never trusted their rulers blindly. |
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tararu
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Yes. True. However, l don't see how society would have got this far without long periods of trust. Yes, there have been revolutions, but a society cannot prosper if it is in constant flux.
A marrige will not continue unless you have faith in your partner. |
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Baba Alex
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| runeman wrote: |
Tararu wrote:
| Quote: |
| Even though there have been many periods of enlightenment in which men (I use this word for a reason) have questioned society at large, generally these people were rich men from the ruling classes. |
What about Jesus? |
Yeah, there has been the odd schizophrenic, too. |
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