Job Discussion Forums

[clark.w.griswald]

[Gregor]

Ah.
OK, I see what you mean.
Still, it seems like standard operating procedure in China, and it would be detailed in the contract, surely.
Anyway, it is a good point to make here, for teachers who don't know about this phenomenon. It should be addressed. In other parts of the world? I don't remember this being an issue in Mexico, Lebanon or Indonesia (the other countries i have some experience with), but then again, I've been in China for about four years now.

Thanks for the kind words, Steppenwolf. Since I'm back in the DoS chair, where work is either feast or famine (meaning I either have far too much to do in a day or else I have sweet Fanny Anne but still have to be in the office), I'll likely be able to dip my nose in as I used to.

[NathanRahl]

Gregor I don't know why you posted at all, other then to show ognorance and thqt you atually don't understand what I was talking about. This is one thing I hate folks, whne some blow hard know it all just pushes their way and and blows their mouth off, and doesn't actually have a clue.

Heres how it works, for the 3rd time Gregor, and if you think this is making more money, then your a meathead.

School tells you how many classes you'll be wokring a week on average. school uses the word clas hours all the time. You get here, you see "No more then 20 hours a week" you think 20 classes and sign it. Only later do you find out it is 27 classes a week you will be wokring, since the class period is only 40 minutes.

Yeah this is fairly common, and it is dishonest as well. I realy don't know why you posrted, you contributed nothing. All you did was come on, say "I know this, big deal, it's common" and thats it. And to top it all off, your first post you got it absolutely wrong.

No Gregor, you don't end up getting paid more money working per hour, you make less. The school is paid by the class, they tel you a class is a class hour constantly, only to use this to hook yua, and if you find out about it and don't bite, there is always another sucker who will. Next time you post, actually understand what your posting to, and read the whole OP, otherwise, just shut up.

[DistantRelative]

Nathan wrote:

[NathanRahl]

I don't know who you are distant relative, but you obviously don't know anything teaching in china

[Bayden]

All bow to the great NathanRahl.
He's a 'real' teacher, don't you know.
And an old China hand.
You express my thoughts exactly distant relative.

[NathanRahl]

Bayden actually typed more then one sentence, what a rarity, I am honored

[Brian Caulfield]

Bayden I thought you were supposed to rape before you pillaged .

[NathanRahl]

I want to respond more indepthly to someones comment about it coming out to more money, because the thread, as usual, has been sidetracked by some trolls.

Say you go to a school and apply for a job, they tell you a class hour is 45 minutes. You see 20 hours on your contract, and you sign.

Now, what the neglected to tell you might just be that they only pay by the hour, theres the catch. Though they tell you a class hour is 45 minutes, they never said this is the amount they pay you by. This is dishonest. They would argue misunderstanding, but think about it. The school purposely tells you that it is a class hour, then goes on to say "And you will work 12 "hours" a week. Why use the term hour, why not period. Because ladies and gents, they wish to deceive, confuse, and lead you astray. In the end you are working 24 classes a week, not 20.

If they really wished to be upfront and forthright, they would say "A class period is 45 minutes, but we pay by the hour".

Now that would be very enlightening. "So, you do not pay by the class, but, to make some extra mnoney, you pay us for 45 min of one class, then 15 of another, ah, I see."

They do not tell you that though, and most newbies to china do not make the distinction, or know how things work.

Now part of the blame lies with the person who is coming here not doing their homework, but I will be honest, I did so much research before coming that you would think I was researching to write a novel, yet these little tiny details are often the type that you do not find out about until your here doing it.

The term "class hour" is misleading, because it is not an hour at all, it's just that the chinese have found that this works very often for them.

Just like airfare. Have you al not noticed how much airfare reimbursement has dropped just in the past few years. It used to be you would get a decent amount. Now it's capped around 8,000 for some schools, with many not even paying that. Whatever schools can get away with, they do.

This is just another example of the tiny little tricks that chinese schools try to squeeze every extra little cent out of you.

There is no such thing as a class hour, it is a 45 minute period. Just changing the language would do a lot to clear things up, but then chinese do not wish things clear, muddled is better, they confuse you more and make more money in turn.

Of course so many things about the chinese are disingenous. For starters, they say your paid by the class, but then they pay you by the hour. Or they say they pay you by the class, and do, but they pay you a salary. Now wait, which is it, I get a salary, or I get paid by the hour. Oh, it's both, well how can that be? It's both so the chinese can have their cake and eat it to. You miss a class, they dock you a class "period" or hours pay, whatever. You only work 12 classes a week but your contract says a max of 12 hours, they can get you for 3 more classes. Or if it says "average" is 12, thats not a specific number, so they need you to work an extra 3 hours one week, nothing you can do about it. There are so many ways the chinese can get you with this vague abiguous double talk language in contracts, and if your not careful, they will.

Enough with the dishonesty already, or with westerners defending it. So many folks on this forum want to look down on others, appear tough, unphased by anything, that they down even the most sensible speech, "Oh, you cmplain too much, whiner" I think it's sad really. All that happens is people think it is virtue to get screwed and say nothing, a very typical male response. Do nothing or your weak, blah blah blah.

Always be careful when signing a contract, or doing any hourly work. The chinese do not hve the sam concept of honesty as we do, it usually means whatevr they can get away with. They like to fall back on the old "misunderstanding" card, no matter how obvious it is that that is not the case. They love to blame others also, some nameless third party you have never met is usually the villian. Ours is a very different society, they know this, and exploit it. hence all the ambiguos wording, double talk, and outright dishonesty.

China can be a great plce to work, but if your not careful, they will eat you live

[Brian Caulfield]

So the lesson learned is that you must ask if you are being paid for the time you teach or the classes you teach ? What's the big deal? It's the same all over the world . And if your students are bad one hour seems like six hours . There are so many factors involved besides just your wages .

[Steppenwolf]

I guess, some employers can legitimately expect us to be in the know about their remuneration policies; in Guangzhou it would seem to be the normal thing for a training centre to pay you per period.
It's unfair as you have a lot of extra presence time that goes unrewarded - but if you know you have a choice. You can then ask how long those breaks are and whether you have split lessons.

To be honest - public schools have never misinformed me in that regard.

And some training centres paid me better than 100 a 60 minute hour.

I would surmise that most differences of opinion between employers and employees arise from situations in which we get farmed out; they hardly happen to you when you teach in-house.

One of my best colleagues last year found out over time that his employer was shortchanging him; he then queried his boss about it and was given the standard answer about 60 minutes being the defining quality of an "hour".

My friend was not sure he had been paid 150 per 60 minutes before; it seemed to him a new policy had been enacted without so much as a notice. However, he couldn't prove it. He stuck it out, though.

[Gregor]

[DistantRelative]

Nathan, Shadup!! You sidetracked the thread when you decided to personally attack Gregor for simply misuderstanding your OP or stating an opinion different than your own.

Pull your head out, tone down your rhetoric, and come to grips with the fact that your basically a "noob" who got taken for a ride when he first arrived, rather than an old China hand. You do that and some of us here might actually begin to take you serious. Until then fugetaboutit!!

Zhuhao (not!!)

Shawn

[NathanRahl]

As new as you might think I am, I am an older hand then you, and likely Gregor can defend himself. However since you choose to speak for him and can not mind your own business, very well. If someone wishes to not feel attacked, or be attacked, likely they should learn how to read If your going to comment on a post you have not read, then expect to be seen as a meathead, thats all I'm saying.

Now why not pull your own head out of your butt and comment on the post, have any comments, anything to add, some experience of your own, being such an "old" hand? No, of course not.

Oh and distant relative, why exactly do you keep refering to when I arrived here, did you not read my OP, guess not, someone else needs to get their head out of their arse. My OP is not even about that at all, if you had bothered to read it, instead of going off half cocked because you just don't like me, sad.

Another person who sidetracks a thread because they did not read the OP. You are a sidetrakcer man, cause your bringing up things that are not even in the OP, learn to read, then comment on the post, and show us some of your "old school" wisdom you just bragged about having Then mayhbe some of us will take your seriously.

Until then, fugetaboutit.

[OGFT]

NathanRahl