Job Discussion Forums

[cj750]

DR..I think in these two post you have captured a simple concept that has alluded many of your profession...your advice is truly the way to make a "FTs" time in china seem worthwhile ..and at the same time ..preforming exactly what the Chinese want in their oral English classroom..if more Oral Teachers would follow this simple guideline..they would find there classroom experience more rewarding...

[Anda]

Um,

What I found by teaching young private students for fun in South Korea was that two of my students hadn't liked the previous teacher as he just stayed for the exact time he was paid to teach. So they figured that he had no interest in them, just the money their parents paid!

If you teach older students by using a course book instead of preparing your own teaching material then once again you are seen as being there for a holiday not to teach.

The conversational teacher thing that most places employ us for is what they themselves are poor at teaching. Where I work their would be about fifty or sixty Chinese English teachers plus myself.

How do I teach conversation to classes of 55 students that I see once a week for 50 minutes? I use a conversational script that I handout a copy to all my students and have them read after me. Normally I would have my students doing pair work on the script but 55 students per class, in small classrooms, become too noisy.I also copy something of the interest off the internet for home study.

For the second part of my lesson I do a conversation with them on the board. I keep the conversation going and get them to come up and write answers, questions and statements as needed.

Below is an example of what I write and use: Sorry it doesn't copy that well but it will give you the idea

Back To The Pig Farm. By Anda
!. Chen: I tell you Ling, I�m not looking forward, to going back to my parent�s pig
farm
2. Ling: What do you mean Chen? You�ll be going to look for a good job in
Nanjing, wont you? That�s what you�ve always told me anyway!
3. Chen: Yeah, that�s what I�ve always wanted to do, however I�ve failed the
exams! I�d have to repeat another year, and pass the exams, to have a
chance, of finding a decent job in Nanjing.
4. Ling: You�re smart enough, why didn�t you pass the exams this year? I passed,
and I�m not as bright (clever) as you.
5. Chen: But you�ve been spending most of your free time studying. I haven�t, I�ve
mainly been playing computer games, and having a good time, with my
friends here from college.
6. Ling: Oh, I see, then why don�t you repeat another year here, and study
hard Chen?
7. Chen: Dad said that he and mum have to think of themselves now. Dad also
said that they have been going without, for over five years, to give me
the opportunity of a good education along with a future.
8. Ling: Can�t say I blame them for giving up on you. Why don�t you get a factory
job here in town then, and study by distance education after work.
9. Chen: Do you know how much factory workers make here in town? I can tell
you, most of them make 500 RMB a month. I can�t see myself living on
such small money. After food and accommodation, there would be
nothing left, just work and study, day in day out, no thanks.
10. Ling: Huh, you should have thought about that before, it�s too late now! The
trouble is Chen you haven�t thought about anything much, have you?
11. Chen Yeah, I�m starting to realize that now. My parent�s farm stinks badly
with all the pigs running around everywhere, and it�s terrible having to
work from sunup to dark everyday, especially in the winter. Dad will
probably only give me about 400 RMB a month, but at least I wont
have to pay, for food along with accommodation and transport.
12. Ling: You could study by correspondence from your parent�s farm then, if
you go home to your live with your parents.
13. Chen: I can�t see myself having much energy for study after working all day
with the pigs. Before I used to finish at about 6 PM, then have dinner
with my parents, then I�d go straight to bed afterwards. Dad would
come into my bedroom, and wake me up at six in the morning, to have
breakfast and start work again. Farm life isn�t my cup of tea.
(he doesn�t like farm work)
14. Ling: You don�t seem to want to study; you don�t want to work in a factory,
you dislike farm work. What do you want to do?
15. Chen: I want a good office job in Nanjing but I can�t see myself getting that
now. My father said that a local business woman wants me as her
houseboy. I know her; she owns property and has about eight
businesses in the town nearby to where my parents have their farm.
16. Ling. Houseboy, you mean servant. A rich old lady wants you to keep her
house clean and serve her tea and stuff.
17. Chen: She isn�t that old, she�s only about fifty, that�s all. Actually she wants
me to be her fancy man, companion whatever you want to call it.
18. Ling: Not that old, she thirty years older than you. She wants you to be her
lover, that�s what you really mean, right?
19. Chen: Yeah that�s right, but it�s not so simple. My parents have kind of
adopted a local young man, who lost his parents in a car accident.
He�s a hard worker and as dad says, he appreciates them, my parents
I mean. He�s kind of replaced me on my parent�s farm. I think they
like him, more than me nowadays. Someone told dad that I have
been mucking around here, and not studying so I�m really in the bad
books. (really unpopular)
20. Ling: Sounds like your father doesn�t really want you home. He actually
wants you to go and live with this rich business woman. Your father is
really coming down on you hard then. (treating you hard)
21. Chen: Yes I�m afraid so, dad said that if I don�t pull my weight on the farm
that I would have to leave and take whatever was offering elsewhere.
(pull your weight: do a fair share of the work)
22. Ling: Oh, so I was right, your father is really fed up with you. You know this
woman is going to expect you to treat her nicely. You�re going to have
to compliment her and tell her how nice she looks. She�ll probably also
want to show you off to her business friends, everyone for that matter.
23. Chen: Oh well that�s life I suppose, I should at least be able to learn
something about doing business off her.
24. Ling: Huh, that�s if you can tear yourself away from playing computer games
to pay attention to her.
25. Chen: I�ve learnt my lesson I can assure you. I�ve finished with computer
games. I don�t like the prospect of factory or farm work down the track.
I�ll be studying every business book that I can get my hands on.
(down the track : in the future)
26. Ling: You should try and get some kind of qualification, degree. It�s heard to
get your foot inside the door of a big company without one, even if you
do have the knowledge or ability to get the job done.
(foot inside the door: be listened to, in relation to a job, this time)
27. Chen: Yes I aware of that! I intend to finish off my degree here with the
college by distance education first and then do some kind of business
degree from somewhere. It hurts the way dad treats me. I want to get
his respect back again as well as giving myself the chance of a future.
28. Ling: It�s good to hear you talk about getting your father�s respect back
again. They (parents) are the only ones that really care for us,
everyone else wants money or something.
29. Chen: What are you going to do now Ling?
30. Ling: My marks were good enough to allow me to go to Nanjing
to do another two years of study to get a teaching position!
31. Chen: Wow, you really did study hard. You got in the top 25% here at college!
32. Ling: Yep, mom and dad are really happy with me!

[movinaround]

[Anda]

Um.

Um, everything I use in class is checked first by the school and printed by the school. Everything I use in class is also used in the teachers class. No secrets.

[seperley]

I cannot speak of any overt resentment on the part of my students, just some initial negativity.

The comments that I have gotten from my college students is that three of their previous teachers just did not teach oral English or whatever the course title might have been. The teachers sang songs for them, played movies every week, told stories or (worse) brought a book to class and ignored them. Having had personal experience with the teachers, I believed the students' stories.

Some of the students did not want to engage in speech in class. They wanted to be entertained, so they didn't like me too much in the beginning. Others expected the same behavior from me that they observed of my predecessors, so I wasn't received too well by them initially either.

There IS the perception that some of the FTs are incompetent. Whether this is true in any case is a moot point; Perception is reality. I do feel, however, that in the cases which I observed, the recruiters and schools could have done a much better job of screening the FTs before they let them in. I have met supposed Ph.Ds say "aint got no" and "done went" and other such non-standard English. The students pick up on this.

In the middle schools in which I taught part-time, I learned that i was the FIRST foreigner to whom any of my students had ever spoken. This may have contributed to some initial negativity as well as some of the exuberance. (Yeah, some kids were thrilled to finally speak to a roundeye).

But resentment? I never detected any except in the college classes whenever politics arose. It was mostly an expression of nationalism and an outrage toward a few common misconceptions which had been instilled in them by their parents and/or teachers.

[mondrian]

[tarzaninchina]

I hear you.

Most students get annoyed when they can't use their brains to pass exams. That is specific to one teacher though.

Plus, most students aren't aware of the job market for International Teachers (let's start avoiding xenophobia and refer to ourselves in this way). They do know how to judge qualifications a little bit.

As for the other Chinese teachers, that does largely depend on the college/uni. At mine, the Dean actively discourages the other instructors from speaking to me. After being here for a few years, they ask me English questions every now and then.

In order to "work things" at the college at which I'm employed, I didn't offer many explanations on why things are written in a certain way in English because I didn't want to make the Chinese instructors look too bad. This upcoming term, I've decided to throw that to the wind as the instructors have started to ask me things like how to use colons. FYI, I teach third-year writing.

One thing that does get me is students saying the Chinese teacher said it was one way. If I get that this term, those students will lose face. That will have to be mitigated mind you....

[The Voice Of Reason]

Why do (some) students resent FTs?

Here are some possibilities (I wouldn�t know because I�m immensely likable):

Kindergarten FTs: Because they don�t give out cookies on cue?

Junior / Middle / High School, College, University FTs: Because the students find the teacher boring / had hoped the class was going to be more fun? Because the students know their FT�s role is unnecessary and the oral English class is viewed as unimportant? Because students are overworked and / or tired and / or resent anything and anyone that gets in their way of playing computer games / sleeping / watching TV? Because the FT is simply difficult to like? Because (especially for older students) the FT is seen to have a cushy job and that they�ve not had to struggle to acquire? Supposedly because the FT�s English and / or teaching abilities are lacking, but that�s often an easy excuse to resent them, the real reason being another above?

Language Mill FTs, teaching kids: As above

Language Mill FTs, teaching adults: Skin colour / nationality / age / attractiveness / gender / weight? Because the teacher can�t teach them oral English quickly and with little effort on the learner�s part? Because the students find the teacher boring / had hoped the class was going to be more fun? Because the FT is simply difficult to like? Because the FT�s English and / or teaching abilities are lacking (but more likely it�s because the FT is not the right type of foreigner, see above)? Because the FT doesn�t want to be their friend (teach them for free outside of class)? Because they would like to emigrate to the West and we�ve chosen to be here?

[englishgibson]

[englishgibson]

[englishgibson]

[Steppenwolf]

The concept of actually using in practice what one has acquired in theory is totally alien to the Chinese mind; to speak a language that teachers take great pains to hammer in one's brain is regarded as a waste of time unless it augments one's vocabulary. Our students don't care about English though they care about the marks they must get; learning a foreign language is the same for them as studying maths - it's an academic discipline. How there can be any enthusiasm is really a good question!
If Chinese teachers took a more serious look English more seriously (and actually mastered the language themselves) they wouldn't need to rely on FTs to do oral classes. It should be any English teacher's job to use English in teaching English; if they taught grammar in English their students would get a handle on the syntax and the grammar itself and would not need extra speaking practice.

And that's where we come into the picture; we are "stealing" their time by making useless exercises that teach them nothing or very likttle new.
Why else would parents demand to know how many new words their son or daughter had to memorise in our class? Even kindergarten kids have to learn to a numeric goal that's set artificially high to impress parents who then think their kid is a child prodigy that will pass exams with flying colorus.

[TravellingAround]

It should be remembered that some are just dumb racists as well just like any part of the population in any country.

[TravellingAround]

[englishgibson]

there we go...."reciting"...a major part of chinese students' learning process

a while ago, i had some young learners' parents immensely complaining about their kids poor progress....when i asked them why they thought so, they could not understand me (did not speak any english)....through my translator i asked the same and i got an answer that those young learners' parents tried to speak to their kids IN ENGLISH at their home ...just like 'WHAT'S THIS? WHAT'S THAT? HOW ARE YOU? WHAT'S YOUR NAME? HOW OLD ARE YOU? etc" ....i bet their accent was as clear as the river in guangzhou and their kids were as scared as when they see a "black teacher" (sorry for the choice of colors guys) in the classroom

now, here we are in china in 2007....trying our best to help chinese learn the lanugage that's so different than their own

peace to china
and
cheers and beers to all hard working FTs