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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:32 am Post subject: |
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There are so many monoglots in the field of TESOL/TEFL !
Truly amazing that they claim to know all about Foreign Language Aquisition when they themselves have never done it !
Sheech !
Would you take driving lessons from someone who could not drive a car ? |
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Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Of course having a 2nd language helps somewhat but monoglots can still be good teflers, just as polyglots (like me) can be bad teflers. Lots of 'professionals' advise and work in areas that they've studied but never had direct or personal experience.
For example, a counselor doesn't need to have experienced trauma to counsel a trauma victim. I've never married but that doesn't stop me giving sound advice about marriage to my younger colleagues.
What makes a good teacher? Empathy, imagination, knowledge, energy, fat pay-check, etc, etc, etc. L2 experience fits in there but it's not essential. And anyway, the way you learned your L2 might be contrary to how many of your students learn. Could your L2 experience be a handicap? There's little correlation between my teaching style and how I studied my L2, that's for sure! |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| There's little correlation between my teaching style and how I studied my L2, that's for sure! |
me too. I learned Turkish down the village pub. I certainly wouldn't advise any students under the age 18 to do as I did. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I agree that it is not essential for a language teacher to have studied another language, but it certainly helps - a lot.
Not only does having studied a second language -any second language - give you a greater insight into just how languages work, perhaps more importantly it helps you to be more empathetic with your students. It's hard to understand the embarrassment of having such limited langauge abilities that you speak like a two-year old even though you're an intelligent adult, or the artificiality of discussing things with your friends in a language both of you barely speak, if you haven't had similar experiences yourself.
Certainly if I were ever recruiting ESL teachers, I wouldn't rule ou those who had never studied a foreign language. But all other things being equal, I would definately give preference to those who have. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Van Norden wrote: |
| ... I've never married but that doesn't stop me giving sound advice about marriage to my younger colleagues. |
I certainly wouldn't ask �sound advice� for my marriage from my older colleagues who have never got married!  |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| BajaLaJaula wrote: |
Yeah...try speaking any language fluently after taking courses for 2 years.....most would not be able to do so.....I would agree that only about 25% could acquire literacy in that time...most humans would need more time...at least 5 years... That is not due to lack of effort or brain power....it just takes longer to really become fluent in a language.
Saudi students can acquire minimal English language skill...L1 perhaps....after about 1 - 2 years....that is normal.
Do some research before expecting the impossible of language learners in a 2 year period. |
Don't you think that the age of learners is, I think, the most important factor, in learning second language? And children (< 10 yrs) are more ready and fresh to learn second language in short time, may be less than 2 yrs).
�Studies have shown -- and experience has supported -- that children who learn a language before the onset of adolescence are much more likely to have native-like pronunciation. A number of experts attribute this proficiency to physiological changes that occur in the maturing brain as a child enters puberty� http://www.kidsource.com/
Also, can we say that people who are bilinguals have advantages over monolinguals in terms of learning and �critical thinking�?
I wonder if somebody, like myself, whose English is my 3rd language, I feel like using my mind to think about things using my first language (Arabic), but express myself (written or spoken) in English?
Is there any influence, positive or negative, when using two languages (L1 and L2) in the same time, but in a different concept (thinking vs speaking)?
lastly, can we say that the mental operations that allow us to learn, for example to solve math problems, are different from those used to learn second languge? |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I feel like using my mind to think |
What else would you use to think? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Some males use another organ for thinking - the 'membrum virile' if I may escape into the delicacies permitted me by my classical education. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Many Saudis will tell you, with all sincerity, that women 'think with their emotions'. If I had a rial for every educated, sophisticated Saudi women who has said this to me, I could retire tomorrow! |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
| ....What else would you use to think? |
| scot47 wrote: |
| Some males use another organ for thinking - the 'membrum virile' if I may escape into the delicacies permitted me by my classical education. |
I am mindful that my audience may not share my assumptions.
�Everything required for human survival must be acquired by using the mind to think and to devise tools for satisfying needs.� http://blog.islandpress.org/
May Lord of heavens opens the minds of Dmb and Scott to the great worth of human, and free them from the falsehoods of inner mind that leads to the miss-interpretation of King Cobra English writing and views.
Amen, Amen, Amen! |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Don't you think that the age of learners is, I think, the most important factor, in learning second language? And children (< 10 yrs) are more ready and fresh to learn second language in short time, may be less than 2 yrs).
�Studies have shown -- and experience has supported -- that children who learn a language before the onset of adolescence are much more likely to have native-like pronunciation. A number of experts attribute this proficiency to physiological changes that occur in the maturing brain as a child enters puberty� http://www.kidsource.com/ |
This is true of acquiring a first language but anything but true for learning a second language. Those who start earlier do better because in total they have more years learning, but five years learning a language from 14-19 will be much more effective than five years from 9-14. |
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