Job Discussion Forums

[Scruffy]

I love the language and definitely don't want to be too isolated and unable to socialize with Japanese friends, so I think I'll naturally be drawn to learning more than I'm intending to. Which script/characters is the first that people usually study? There are three from what I'm understanding. One consists entirely of Chinese characters, correct? And there are about 1,500 of those in common use that Japanese kids have to learn? Another is pure Japanese? And the third is ... ugh. Anyway, I started learning one of them about ten years ago. We learned syllables like ryo, tsu, and so on. I'm guessing that's the place to start?

[6810]

Learning Japanese. My advice.

1. Buy the excellent myth busting book "Making Sense of Japanese: What the Textbooks Don't Tell You" by Jay Rubin. If you're a beginner, probably half of it won't make much sense. Read it again after you've been studying for a few months. It's an amazing book which is the foundation of the next couple of points of advice...

2. Japanese is not difficult. Learning to read and write are time consuming but not hard. If you work full time, have two part time jobs and are studying a doctorate part time and are expecting a baby (all of the above = me) than Japanese literacy is a matter of efficient time management and commitment. Make time for reading and writing and your whole experience in Japan will be made far more worthwhile and conscious as opposed to parasitic and unaware.

3. Speaking Japanese is not difficult. The main thing to do is to pu yourself in a context where you can hear and crucially speak Japanese on a daily basis. Before long, you'll be thinking in Japanese and you will have won!

4. Japanese is not "vague". There are a lot of euphemisms and idioms used in order to defend "social harmony" but by and large, your first hand experience of Japanese and relationships with Japanese people will be your best teachers when yes = yes and no = no. Forget what every one else says about legendary Japanese "vagueness". The vagueness is not linguistic - it's cultural.

[Zzonkmiles]

There are three scripts:

1. Hiragana. This script consists solely of phoenetic sounds and the characters themselves are roundish, curly characters. There are about 50 in all. You can write every word in Japanese if you know hiragana. Grammatical elements are always expressed using hiragana. This is the first script I recommend studying.

2. Katakana. This script consists of the same sounds that hiragana does, but it us used to talk about "loaned words," such as "pasokon" (PC), "wapuro" (word processor), "shatsu" (shirt), etc. As a non-Japanese, your name is written in katakana. These characters are much more angular in appearance. Again, there are about 50 characters here, although some characters can be combined to create unnatural Japanese sounds, such as "che" or "fi." You can also write a regular Japanese word using katakana to give it emphasis. This is similar to using italics or boldface. If you learn katakana, this will really help you when you go shopping at the supermarket because a lot of food products and flavors are expressed using katakana (supaishii-spicy, chikin-chicken, etc.).

3. Kanji. This is the set of complex pictographs. Each kanji has a set of readings. Some readings are mere phoenetic sounds, while other readings are actual words. This is easily the most difficult script to learn, as about 2000 are officially used in newspapers and such. There are thousands more obscure kanji used for names, places, and even regular words. Most station names are written using kanji. Again, all kanji can be written using hiragana, but it makes it a lot easier to understand if you use the kanji. Here's an example of how the readings matter:

機関
期間

Both of these sets of kanji are read as "kikan." You can write "kikan" using hiragana as きかん. However, the first "kikan" means "engine" while the second "kikan" means "time period." So while hiragana is much easier to read, kanji helps provide a bit of context to make the overall sentence easier to understand. Also, take a look at the 間 at the very end of the second pair of kanji I wrote. One reading is "kan" as in "kikan," but that's just the phoenetic reading. It has another reading, "aida," which is an actual independent word meaning "interval." You have to learn when to use which reading.

Kanji is tough, but your understanding of the world around you will increase IMMENSELY if you can read it.

[kdynamic]

[Scruffy]

Thanks for the detailed explanation of what the three scripts do. I must have been studying hiragana, then, all those years ago. I think what I'll do is get the Japan Times level one book and workbook and have a more focused approach to learning Japanese. I have a rather unique situation in that I'll be living with a Japanese family. They speak English, but I know they'll appreciate my wanting to learn their language. (And I'm pretty sure their dog only speaks Japanese, so that right there's incentive enough!) I love your obvious enthusiasm for what you've accomplished in learning Japanese. It's contagious.

By the way, can you recommend a good dictionary? Something not overly scholarly but that I won't grow out of? With Japanese (three sets of characters) I haven't a clue what to look for.

[fat_chris]

[japanman]

In some ways, katakana is the best one to learn first. I did this one first and then I could read cafe menus etc.
If you love the language then you are almost half-way there already. I am far from in love with the language. It neither tickles me or bores me, just in the middle and my level is around low-intermediate speaking and upper-intermediate listening and reading, I guess.

[MrCAPiTUL]

Genki IS a good book. It is more academic in nature than many others. If you can't find it in your local bookstore (which you probably won't since it is geard towards academia), check Amazon.com. They usually have a few used copies. Buon fortuna!

[Ichigo]

I've started to study in 2002 (on and off I have to admit).
By now I'm still only around 3kyu level, but ever since I came to Japan my motivation has grown quite a bit.
I study Japanese every single day to prepare for 2kyu, but it's a long way and with a full-time job (as most of you know) really hard.

My current plan looks like this:
Work as teacher for 2 more years to save enough money to be able to attend a Japanese language school full-time for about 1 year then.

At least I hope to find a teaching job next that allows me to study Japanese in between classes and gives me a little bit more holidays/freetime than my current job.

[Canuck2112]

If you're new to the language completely, I really recommend the audio series "Pimsleur Japanese", sets 1 2 and 3. Each level has 30, 30min audio lessons. I cringed when I first heard about them ("Oh great! Listen and repeat!") but without exaggeration I retained every single thing they taught. By the time you finish level 3 you'll be able to hold a reasonable conversation about a familiar subject.

They are VERY expensive though. I suppose, since they are nothing more than Audio MP3s, that if one were so inclined they might be able to locate them somewhere for free in the vast expanse of the internet.

[reasonJP]

Trying for JLPT level 3 right now, but I'm not sure I'll get it this year..
One big problem I've had is getting hold of a decent textbook. My ambition at the moment is to get a decent Japanese textbook written (probably with the assistance of someone who's actually fluent) because all my experience with textbooks has been frustrating or demoralising.

I've mainly dabbled in Japanese in Mangaland, Japanese For Busy People and Minna No Nihongo. JFBP and MNN are horrible, horrible books. Dry, long, black and white with few or no pictures and focussed on that horrible dull teaching style of endless grammar exercises and little communication. Managaland was a little better aesthetically, but still wasn't communicative enough.

[wayne432]

I recommend Genki.... going through the 2 vols should get you to near Level 3 I think.