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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, Justin, I'd agree with you entirely, then. I think it was the exclaimation points in your post (Build her up!!) that made me think you might put her on the spot, if she were your student.
A good example of how written versus spoken language can be deceiving, since we don't have the clues outside the wording and punctuation itself. |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ryuuga wrote: |
Introverts like to observe people, so trying to get her involved might be a bit intimidating to her. Although this may not be the case, she probably learns simply through observing others. I have a slight feeling that you may be wrong about her feeling inferior to others. She may be trying to portray herself as inferior and try not to draw as much attention to herself. Usually, quiet people tend to be a lot less emotional when doing certain things. This does not mean they don't have emotions, but that they maybe do not like to express that emotion. Hopefully that helps a bit.
EDIT:
See if she seems to be more comfortable when she is not included in some of the activities. Although language is a very verbal subject, it does not alway need to be practiced verbally. I would suggest being a little less concerned and try talking to her when there aren't as many students in the class.(end of the period if she is the last to walk out) Try not to "put a spotlight" on her, it will most likely make her uncomfortable. |
Certain things the secretary has said to me privately have shown that she really does feel inferior to the others. She is really a teenager among adults, though she is growing up pretty fast.
She definitely does not like the spotlight. However, she has poor listening comprehension, and so I find that I have to keep her actively--but gently--involved, in order to prevent her mind from wandering off.
Last edited by John Hall on Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
Sheikh Inal Ovar
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| She might not be that comfortable with a teacher who interprets a reversion to L1 as an act of defiance ... |
If the rule is not use the L1, then that in itself is defiant or shows someone doesn't understand the rules!  |
I didn't write that well. I should have stated that the act of defiance was more the fact that she refused to cooperate with me in the activity than that she suddenly broke out in Spanish. |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ls650 wrote: |
| The OP used the role playing situation of being a secretary - and then started to tell the secretary how to do her job differently! Naturally she took it as criticism and was offended. Has the OP talked privately to the student about this? |
The whole class said the dialogue lines mechanically. I thought she would be best at saying the line with natural intonation and emotion. Being a sensitive person, I suppose she could have taken it as an offence. But I still believe that the thing that really bothered her was being in the spotlight and being used as an example for the others.
Obviously, she doesn't like that, and so I won't ask her to be a professional example for the others again.
It seems like I am in a very delicate situation with her, and no matter what I try, things may not work out. Sometimes you lose, no matter how hard you try. |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
I think it's common for us, as teachers, to feel solely responsible for classroom dynamics, but in fact we can only affect them to some extent.
I'd suggest that in a case like this, the other three students have some responsibility (even if it's only a social one) to help this weaker one fit in, even if it's just for lesson time and she has to revert to her 'lesser' status afterwards...
...if you're using significant pair and group work among the four of them, their one-to-one contact with the secretary may change things, as they get to know her a bit better as a person and language student like them. I'd try using team and group tasks, without teacher participation, as much as possible with a group like this. |
After thinking about Spiral's comments here, I realize that for this girl, the greater the number of people who witness her errors, the worse she feels. She has fewer of these sensitivity problems in pair work and choral repetition. Unfortunately, I don't think that individual response can be entirely eliminated from my lesson planning! |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
Justin, I think your motivation is totally pure, but as a rather passive, quiet learner myself, I'd just close down more if I became the target of an obvious 'build the student up' effort.
I still think that the key is to create enough group work for her to begin to feel part of the group - the teacher isn't the primary source of confidence in belonging to a class - it's more fellow classmates, particularly in a situation of social/workplace inequality. |
I've actually had these students for at least a year. If you can believe it, the secretary had more difficulties in class last year than this year; last year, it seemed that new language structures would rarely stick in her mind from one class to the next. She has improved considerably in that area this year.
I tried the build-the-student-up approach last year, and that did not work for the reasons that Spiral has identified. I also have to agree with Spiral that I don't think that this student is going to gain a lot of proficiency through student-teacher interaction in the presence of the other students, or even student-student interaction with the others observing. She'll probably learn best outside of that spotlight which she despises; so I think that pair work, book work, and choral drills seem to be the way to go. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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John, I think it's admirable that you've spent so much energy to analyze how best to approach this student.
Good luck! |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks. I think it is great to be able to use this forum in this way. Great feedback from teachers all over the world. I'm surprised that there aren't more teachers posting problems with students here. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| John, I think it's admirable that you've spent so much energy to analyze how best to approach this student. |
I second that- your students are lucky to have you!
Best,
justin |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I taught the class this morning and yesterday morning. One of the students could not come for either class. This woman has a strong personality and is quite impatient, especially when the secretary takes a long time to answer! The secretary was less reticent, I think, as a result of the other student's absence. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if you might be able to sometimes take the approach of neutralizing this stronger personality in terms of her interaction with your fragile one - maybe spend more class time on pair work, with the secretary working most often with one of the softer members of the class.
I don't know your teaching context, but maybe a little unit on English for Tactful Expressions would be appropriate? Modals and conditionals for politeness?
In the Netherlands, we often created short courses focusing on polite expression, as Dutch tends to be more 'up front' and can sound confrontational and impolite sometimes in English.
Maybe you could help minimize the visible impatience of your stronger student by taking this sort of tack?
Just an idea. |
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John Hall
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I don't think the assertive student's problem has to do with a lack of knowledge of polite language; it has more to do with her stronger personality and lack of patience. I'm working on the latter, but the stronger personality is just her nature. Nevertheless, she needs to be more aware of how she is perceived by others (which is also an important part of intercultural communication) and learn not to get too carried away at times.
I think the secretary needs to learn to toughen herself up a bit as well. She's young though, and she just needs time... |
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