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ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I just wanted to say that this is hilarious!  |
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TK4Lakers
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
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| no other free democratic nation has such a vast literature in praise of itself. |
Oh, I don't know. Hasn't GW contributed enough manure to that heap in the past few years?
In a related vein, did you see the program on TV the other night? They were showing the plane that crashed in the Potomac River, and when a woman fell out of the safety harness provided by a helicopter, one of the rescued men leaped back into the icy waters to rescue her (not a firefighter). Reagan's comment was sickening to me. He said something about this guy (an obvious hero, no doubt there) showing once again "AMERICAN" courage. Hey, the guy didn't have to be American to do what he did. What other sort of courage would you have in this sort of situation? Seemed more of a political statement for the sake of the country than for the moment, to me. |
I saw the TV show, and I didn't really see anything wrong with the president's address. Afterall, the act of heroism did happen on American soil, and the hero himself was an American.
Here's the exact speech. And after a tragedy like that, I don't see what would be wrong with making a nationalistic speech to the public.
"Just two weeks ago, in the midst of a terrible tragedy on the Potomac, we saw again the spirit of American heroism at its finest the heroism of dedicated rescue workers saving crash victims from icy waters.
And we saw the heroism of one of our young Government employees, Lenny Skutnik, who, when he saw a woman lose her grip on the helicopter line, dived into the water and dragged her to safety."
-President Ronald Reagan's State of the Union speech |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| User N. Ame wrote: |
| Stick with the issue, please. |
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| If you want to broaden the debate into a comparative analysis of racism in the global context, be my guest, but let's do one thread at a time, ok? |
And what have you done here? (from the same thread)
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| no other free democratic nation has such a vast literature in praise of itself. But even in China, it's little more than one dimensional CP-approved Maoist doctrine. Japan's genre of 日本人論 is vast, branching off into social sciences, hard scienes, art, culture and every realm of life. |
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| Your sort of committing a two wrongs non-sequitur in reverse: two wrongs = right. I'm sorry, your aces just got cracked, Mr. Ungar. |
 Gee. Congrats
From the same thread
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| I think this sort of comment is interesting because it shows just how deeply racism is embedded in Japan |
So, the foreign minister makes a racist comment and this shows that racism is deeply embedded in Japan? This is logical thinking?
Oh, wait! Here's proof that racism is deeply embedded in Japan:
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| Based on my hundreds of conversations with Japanese folk of all walks of life (not just old guys), I used to hear these sorts of comments all the time, usually much worse. And the disturbing thing was that they weren't even aware that their racism was racism, or that it had offended me as a foreigner. Go into any bookstore and you'll find an entire section of books dedicated to how great/superior Japan is (nihonjinron 日本人論). Surely, no other nation has such a vast literature in praise of itself? |
If you're going to go around criticizing people for faulty logic, look at your own.
Anyway, I've said enough. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| southofreality wrote: |
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| Stick with the issue, please. |
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| If you want to broaden the debate into a comparative analysis of racism in the global context, be my guest, but let's do one thread at a time, ok? |
And what have you done here? (from the same thread) |
I told you exactly what I've done in the last post, or did you not read that? No need to repeat.
| southofreality wrote: |
| So, the foreign minister makes a racist comment and this shows that racism is deeply embedded in Japan? This is logical thinking? |
Yes, very logical (if you properly represent my argument rather than setting up a straw man), and you haven't proven otherwise. You've missed the essence of my observation in your rush to judgement. Context is important, as is history. This is not an isolated remark by the minister. This sort of thing happens all the time among the Japanese political elite. The nuances and contexts are pretty important. The types of prejudicial attitudes exhibited by Japan's political leaders (and most Japanese people I got to know over my 4 years in the country) are markedly different than that types I experience in Western countries. And because Japan is a culture where communication is indirect and subtle, it's hard to see alot of the time, which makes prejudice in Japan all the more insideous. At least in most Western countries, the dirty laundry is clearly visible, even if no where near resolved. It's talked about, debated, and open for everyone to see. In Europe, there are ugly examples of racism, but it's acknowledged, and debated in public and in the press. The Germans have made their peace with their ugly past. Japan hasn't even come close - with respect to it genocidal Imperial Army rampage through Asia.
Yes, believe it or not, the minister's comments (innocent as they appear) say alot about the kind and depth of prejudice in Japan. And show me a health minister in any Western nation who can get away with referring to women as "baby-making machines". If you want to excuse or dismiss this by reasoning that everyone else does it, your logic is faulty. How long have you been in Japan? Are you still in your honeymoon phase? Let's revisit this discussion after you've had a chance to absorb the nuances of Japanese culture, some of which are great, some of which are quite the opposite.
Another important difference between Japan and other free democratic nations is the culture of journalism. The West has a libertarian tradition of a free and independent press. As such, there is a culture of hard investigative reporting in most Western countries. In Japan, there is no such tradition. A Japanese friend was complaining to me that the only papers that have a grain of critical edge are the gossip rags. In Japan's corportist culture, there is less tolerance for free investigative reporting in the main media. Yes, there is such journalism in Japan, but there are political lines and corporate lines it won't cross. So when a minister makes a comment like this, the lack of media & public outcry is the norm. In the US, every news outlet and political interest group would be all over this sort of a comment and not let it go. In this context, the minister's comments, and the many others by top officials, tells us alot about the nature of racism in Japan. |
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