Job Discussion Forums

[japanman]

That's good news. i want to learn a language that is free of such madness. Learning a language should free the mind, not restrict with with other messed up problems.
I never saw the draw of German before but now I have stated I definately can.

[Hod]

[Deicide]

[japanman]

Tony Blair's French is pretty good I think. Saw him once giving a speech in French before he was PM and he appeared pretty smooth and fluent.

To Hod, I know exactly what you mean and take your point completely but I it's tricky for you to understand what the Japanese are like until you've lived here. But I understand what you mean.

Regarding the language, i'm using Pimsleur German to learn the fundamentals. Has anybody ever used this?

[smoofy]

[smoofy]

[MilesFerdinand]

Hod... I may be wrong but you sound like the type of teacher 9be it of English or any other language) that I would hate. You go on and on about the Goethe teachers talking non-stop but you seem like you'd do exactly the same. In fact your hatred of the Goethe trainer is probably based on the fact that you wish you had the chance to talk so much but she/he wont let you. Maybe they talk so much to keep you quiet.

Your motto personal motto seems to be - "Why use 3 words when I can use 30?"

As for the German: I know all schools base their German language courses heavily on the grammar but you're getting too obsessed analysing the stuff. Yes its tricky and if you're not a grammar freak it will only get worse. You obviously have a smattering of the language so if I were you I'd bin the course and spend more time out speaking, meeting people etc... As you dont need the language for your job, who cares if you call a beer "feminine" when its really "neutral"?

[Hod]

I don't teach. (4 words)

may 9be I need a new motto personal motto?

Not sure about being a grammar obsessive, but anyone who's studied German to even pre-intermediate level (and gone past das bier stage) will vouch how appalling it's gonna sound with crap grammar.

Next.

[MilesFerdinand]

Germany is the most logical, well organised place Ive ever been and this is definitely reflected in the language too. It has very few exceptions to the grammar (unlike English) and is generally quite regimented as far as the rules go. It seems difficult to begin with (especially to English speakers) because of the der, die, das problem but if you dont worry too much about that then you'll get less stuck.

You said "anyone who has studied German to pre-intermediate level know that German grammar is appalling".... I learnt German without grammar to start with. I went to evening-classes for 4 lessons, learned the absolute basics but found it so mindnumbingly boring that I gave up. I little later I used my spare time to join a basketball team - its here that I learnt the language. Nobody spoke English and there were no teachers on the team going through grammar... You've really got to use what you know and be less tied up on the grammar. It sounds bizarre but "studying" German grammar should come AFTER you've learned to communicate

[scot47]

Disagree. For me Grammar comes first. Then communication.

Ha if you think German is difficult try Magyar or Finnish ! As for the remark, "German Grammar is appaling", what is that supposed to mean ?

But it is much easier now to use English in Germany than a few years ago. I started my teaching there 40 years ago.

[Hod]

[lunasea]

wow, i was actually planning on taking a german course this summer in berlin and was considering going to the Goethe Institute! hmmm maybe i should rethink this... any suggestions on somewhere else to go? i would need an intermediate level (and i very much support communicative-approach view teaching)

[Hod]

Teachers or ex-teachers will always be more fussy when they end up as students.

I did try and be balanced when I slated the Goethe Institut - my first teacher was really good. But like anywhere, the glossy brochures and reputation mean diddly squat. Only the teacher matters. Paying 600 euro and courses only starting every two months doesn't allow for much flexiblity. Courses also get booked up so you couldn't sit in for a lesson or two before deciding.

My Goethe courses were done in the evenings with part-time teachers. Goethe in Berlin does have full-time teachers, and I have this idea that due to qualifications, training, support received, etc, they would somehow be better. There is a German equivalent of the CELTA and I would certainly insist a teacher has at least that.

There is an IH in Schoeneberg Berlin which I am planning on studying at soon. I think courses start every week for pre-intermediate upwards.

www.deutschakademie.de/berlin is cheap and cheerful for semi-intensive courses.

[lunasea]

[dagi]

The Goethe Institute has a good reputation but indeed it doesn't mean they live up to it when it comes to reality.
Anyway, the situation of teachers of German as a foreign language is appalling. Working conditions can best be described as modern slavery. Google the "Aktion Butterbrot" to get an idea of wages. Browsing here they earn less than TEFL teachers. 30-40� an hour is just something they can dream of. DaF teacher usually earn half of that.
So naturally there are different kinds of German teachers. Those who slave away and do an insane amount of teaching hours to survive, not having enough time to deliver qualitiy lesson. Or the dedicated German teachers, usually female and married, who do a few courses here and there to supplement the family income, earn some pocket money or simply because the otherwise would get bored at home.
And anyone can call himself a teacher of German as a foreign language - DaF Lehrer - it's not an officially recognised profession. Yet, most language studies require a university degree of Germanistik topped off with numerous other qualifications. A simple random certificate doesn't get you anywhere in that business. You need a uni degree to slave away and earn less than a cleaner.