Job Discussion Forums

[dduck]

[Psy]

Hypothetically, if two candidates were equally qualified, had equal teaching experience and were both excellent teachers, but one was a native speaker and the other was not, who would you choose?

I may be in the minority here, but I believe native speaking is important to some degree, specifically listening/conversation. Have you ever noticed students repeating you, then start talking like you and picking up small phrases that otherwise they'd never have a chance to learn? I knew a student who went around saying, "Don't talk rubbish". Another going around exclaiming "Sweet!" (Not that this was bad)

Another fact is that being as close to the "typical" white, blond hair, blue eyes person will increase your chance of finding a job, especially in the Asian regions. Asking for a photograph on applications is not illegal, but it is if it's used as discrimination, as many institutions are doing. Qualifications do not matter. Asians are discriminated against in this way. Think being fluent in English and the native language is an advantage? Not if you're Asian. Parents of these students won't believe that you'll teach them, but rather talk to each other in the native language and not have "conversation".

IMO, physical appearance is almost always more important than skills (including native speaking) in this field of work.

No point here. Just rambling.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[dduck]

[Psy]

Ben, thank you for your response and I see the valid points that you bring up. I should not have generalized such a broad field over the whole world. There are always bound to be differences between teachers in Latin America and teachers in Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.

However, the quota system does not seem like a realistic solution. Many qualified candidates are likely to be rejected in place of underqualified ones to fill this "quota".

(We have 10 Mexican teachers but only 5 foreign teachers. We must turn away all Mexican applicants even if they are overqualified in order to fill these foreign positions. We must hire foreigners however underqualified they are.)

This seems similar to affirmative action in the United States. It may work, and it seems to eliminate much of the discrimination (I'll give you that much), but in the long term the question we must ask is "Is this best for the students?"

[Psy]

dduck point taken and I can understand your reasons for wanting to hire a local candidate as DoS. I would probably want to do so as well. However, understand that it is the parents of these students who want these "foreign native speakers". If they are unsatisfied with the teachers, they will just as easily take their children and place them in that institution across the street from yours. Therefore in order to be a successful DoS and run a successful institution, they must follow the whims of these parents as they usually have the first, last, and only say. The problem is many DoSs are only concerned about the money, money, money, and don't have the slightest clue about teaching.

I don't blame them, I just hate them.

[rogan]

There are big differences in hiring practices in State Schools and Private Language schools.

There are huge differences in hirin,g attitudes depending on where you are in the world.

[scot47]

Native Speaker or Non-native Speaker ?

In Saudi Arabia (and I feel maybe in the other Gulf States) there is a huge bias in favour of the native speaker teacher. Students - especially in institutions where they pay - do not want Arab, Indian or Pakistani teachers. There are sometimes problems when students are presented with teachers who look as if they are not native speakers ! How do you "look like a NS "? Skin colour can be a factor.

I was in one institution where a South African was rejected becasue he was "not a native speaker" acording to the Saudi supervisor. In fact he spoke English with a South African accent, which was not difficult to understand.

Learners and EFL administrators have a lot of irrational preconceptions.
welcome to the strange world of EFL-ing.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[S6218]

My French teacher in high school wasn't a "native" French speaker, but she taught us tons. I've taught a couple of Japanese courses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Personally, I myself prefer a native in whatever language I am learning. My high school teacher was FRENCH. My college professor wasn't and he also taught German. I remember I could hear his german accent slightly protruding when he "TRIED" to speak french. There are alot of native english speakers in the U.S. who teach foreign languages and I find it lacking and aggravating.

S6218

[Phil_b]

At A-Level at University I learned Spanish from a combination of Native and Non-Native speakers - This seemed to work well, we got a good idea of how the grammar worked from the British (Non-native) teachers and then the more conversational fluency practice with the Spanish (Native) teachers - Does anything like this happen in language schools?

[S6218]

[Guy Courchesne]

Ben, would that quota system run at your school be a part of Quintana Roo's immigration policy? I noticed that in Morelos, immigration is strict on enforcing a 10 to 1 ratio, that is, ten local teachers employed for every 1 foreign teacher employed.

I'm sure someone will pipe up and note that immigration is a federal affair in Mexico and that it should be the same everywhere. Trust me, immigration is not even a state affair. It depends on the personality of the agents and directors of every migra office.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[Guy Courchesne]

Yucatan...sorry. You know how the provincia all looks the same to us chilangos

I had always figured the Morelos system to be made up...some kind of scare tactic by la migra to exact bribes.