Job Discussion Forums

[desertmonkey]

First of all thanks for all the replies, personal messages, emails, excellent suggestions and personal experiences. I've found everyone extremely helpful, inspirational and a source of optimism and strength. I'm meeting up with a fellow poster on this forum this evening. I've had messages of support from the UK who will publicise my case there.

I will try to reply to some of the comments and suggestions that have been made:

I will wait as long as it takes in order to get my rights from the school. I'm in no rush to go anywhere, I guess an excellent opportunity to brush up on my Arabic and become a guide on where to eat in Jeddah and the delights of Jeddah Corniche, etc. Anyway the School has my passport.

Everyone I have spoken to who have had experience with Labour court, friends, Arab News, Lawyer, my translator, have said the school have no leg to stand on. They are very certain that I will get every penny that I'm owed.

I went to meet a lawyer he quoted me 5000, to speak to the school and 10,000 to take it to the labour court. Far more than I'm willing to pay. However he was very confident about the strength of my case and disgust of the way I have been treated. And this is the thing everyone I speak to weather Saudi or non Saudi acknowledges how bad the school was to me. In actual fact the very person who recruited me said �I have never seen any one treated as bad as you in the 27 years I�ve worked at the school�

Thankfully in Britain the Citizens Advice Bureau, Union or such advocacy would usually represent you for free. I am utterly dismayed with the services the British Consulate offer, as I firmly believe Britain is one of the fairest and finest countries in the world when it comes to the rights of employees. I was told at the labour court that I should contact my consulate for a translator as the Pakistani, Indian and in fact all of the consulates provide a translator for the labour office. After a 20 minute conversation I was told no they don�t and the labour office is incorrect. Once this is all over and have obtained my money and rights from the "school" I intend to start a website to help people in my situation guiding them through the whole labour court process in simple English. So if anyone knows a lawyer who help me out or will charge a lot less than please post it here or email me.

Just a quick summary of what's happened as some posters seem to slightly confused:

1) Arrived in Jeddah Sept 2006
2) Told in February 2007 to shift to Riyadh as an Indian National Teacher would be replacing me. I was told why pay a Brit 8400 when we can pay an Indian National only 2600.
3) Told not to report back at the Jeddah school
4) Said I will go to Riyadh, but reimburse me for my medical expenses, provide medical cards and provide/ make arrangments for my accommodation for me and family to come to Riyadh
5) Have been visiting, calling, writing, mailing, faxing the administration in Jeddah and Riyadh for the last 3 months.
6) They fail to reply and make arrangements for me in Riyadh.
7) They have stopped my salary for the last 3 months.

So that's my situation the whole shebang has strengthened me and I'm happy with myself that I have held them account for their oppression and wrongdoing.

I feel terribly sorry for all those poor souls from developing countries who sometimes have to pay $1000�s of dollars to come out here and then their employers refuse to pay them for months on end. While they slave away at some back breaking work in the sweltering heat. Now that�s a plight.

Does anyone know a contact at the BBC Middle East, does any one on this forum think they would be interested in covering my story? If you have there details than please contact me.

[Stephen Jones]

The British Consulate does not provide a translator. It limits itself to recommending a list of lawyers in cases where you have a labour or civil dispute. This is standard behaviour everywhere in the world.

The legal fees you have been quoted seem on the high end. I would shop around.

As I said, we can't comment on your situation as we do not know the exact circumstances, nor what your employer is claiming.

Have you been going to work for the last three months?

[sheikh radlinrol]

I'm sorry Desert Monkey but I suspect there's another side to this story. What might your employer gain from hanging on to your passport? Please let us know what their gripe is.

[Stephen Jones]

Back in Manarat Riyadh in the mid-nineties a couple of teachers went off to a party at one of the compounds. Well lubricated they staggered out of the compound to get a taxi home, but when this friendly Saudi stopped they got in his car instead.

They then regaled him in return for the lift with stories about how good the party was and how much booze they'd drunk. Unfortunatelty the Saudi was an off-duty cop and decided to increase his promotion prospects by turning them in at his place of work, where they were breathalyzed and locked away.After about three days and various angry calls from the British Consulate to the School somebody from Manarat turned up to bail them out. They were required to sign a paper saying they would be good little boys in the future, and the police matter ended there.

However management at Manarat decided they didn't want them any more.
When the guys were told they said, "Fair enough; we didn't like it much here anyway. Give us our passport and toodleydoo!" However things weren't that simple. No, they had indulged in unislamic conduct and according to the terms of the contract would have to pay the employer two month salary in compensation. Only problem was they didn't have it. "Ah, well in that case we can't fire you then" was the reply.

For the next six weeks the guys turned up to school and stood outside the school gates smoking for seven hours. Then, just before the half term holiday, another science teacher did a runner (he was the one for whose defection Manarat management wanted to claim six months salary off the Indian librarian I mentioned earlier), and they suddenly found they couldn't cover the GCSE classes so they offered the physics teacher his job back. He refused to take it unless they also took back his mate, the English teacher, and paid them both the back salary for the six weeks they'd spent smoking outside the gates. As they had the school by the short and curlers they got their way.

The best came about four months later when contract renewal time came round. Both applied for renewal and as things had calmed down they were accepted. And then two weeks before the semester the shit hit the fan when the head of the foundation that runs Manarat was supposed to sign the contracts. He was under the impression that the two had been put on a plane back in November and was not very pleased to find out his orders had been ignored and he had been kept in the dark. End of renewal of contract.

I wouldn't be surprised if some high-up had ordered desertmonkey's transfer to Riyadh, and nobody has dared tell him he's not there.

[scot47]

What makes you think that the UK Consulate will provide an interpreter ? You seem to have a strange idea of the role of Her Britannic Majesty's Ambassador to the Kingdom !

If you and your wife gave up jobs in the UK with a joint salary in excess of 60,000 sterling to take a job in Jeddah paying 8,000 riyals a month I would suggest that your behaviour is not rational

[desertmonkey]

For all those messaging for me an update, I had another labour court meeting last week and the person representing the school deliberately failed to bring his power of authority of letter, that he can represent the school. Hence the hearing was adjourned for another two weeks. This is the second time he's done this.

[desertmonkey]

The final installment ....

I wanted to share this with everybody nearly two years after it happened as positive action. I just keep hearing and reading of more and more people being mistreated by this school. As soon as I arrived at the school I was told by other teachers that the teacher who was doing the job before me, left back for Britain after two months.

We arrived in Jeddah Saudi Arabia September 2006 to teach Computer Studies at Manarat International School.

In February I was told I would need to transfer to Riyadh as this was in my contract and that they were short of teachers in Riyadh! I explained to the school I would consider going to Riyadh but they would need to first:

1. To arrange accommodation for me in Riyadh.
2. Reimburse my Iqama fees of 750 riyals
3. Reimburse my Family Iqmah fees of 2000 riyals
4. Reimburse my family medical expenses
5. Provide medical cards for my family (wife and daughter)

I was told by the head of the administration for the Jeddah Region that I could sleep in the streets, the mosque or a nice shopping mall in Riyadh. I was told that this was the perfect opportunity for me to meet real Saudis as all the Saudis in Jeddah were Bengalis and the real Saudis were in Riyadh.

Now taking in to account I was acting head of department in my old school, seven years of teaching experience, PGCE ICT, and studied for an MA in Education. My wife is a qualified medical Doctor. I resigned from my permanent teaching position and my wife from her job, both of us gave up our jobs to come out to the Kingdom with our 10 month old daughter.

I contacted the schools administration dozens of times regarding my family medical cards by phone and in writing and received no response. Without medical cards I had to rush my wife to the hospital on one occasion when she was unwell with a suspected PE (potentially life threatening) and pay more than 1000 riyals out of my pocket. Over the months I would have to take my wife to the hospital for further blood tests and hospital appointments without the medical cards as promised by the company.

Now since February the school has not paid me my salary (3 months now), were holding my passport, refusing to reimburse me my expenses and provide medical cards. I could not leave the country and at the same time not being paid a single riyal.

As a desperate last resort I have had to take the school to the labour court, I have had two hearings so far and have another one soon. However only yesterday have been informed that the whole labour court process may take about two years. I have contacted the British Embassy. They said even if they gave me new passports we would not be able to leave the country until we got exit stamps. And who may you ask gives the exit stamps? You guessed right, your employer, in my case the Mana- rats. We were truly stuck�

I had another few meetings at the labour court as the weeks went on. One of the requirements each time your case is heard at the labour court is that you have a translator present with you to translate to the adjudicator your side of the story into Arabic. Allaah was really looking after me, I randomly asked a person in the hallway of the labour court if he could translate for me. This person turned out to be a true gentleman. He was the Pakistani Embassy representative at the labour court and his name was Mr Tahir Shariff. Every time we had a hearing Mr Tahir would so eloquently describe to the adjudicator (similar to a judge) how my family and I had left the UK to come to Jeddah to be close to the Haramain, for the love of Allaah. And every time I would try pay this dear brother for his translation he would so politely yet firmly refuse saying how can I take money from you when you are being oppressed.

Every time the person representing the school deliberately failed to bring his power of authority of letter, that he can represent the school. Hence the hearing was adjourned for another two weeks at a time.

By this time it was now May and the academic year was fast coming to a close and I did not want to be in Jeddah indefinitely with my passports being held by the school. The school was well experienced with all sorts of dirty tricks in dealing with the labour court. They were delaying each hearing by failing to bring the correct and required documents. The adjudicator at the labour court said I would get all my entitlements but from his experience it would take about two years.

I then decided I should try and approach the school directly once again and said to them that I want to settle the matter out of the labour court and that I want my passports back. When I discussed this with them they said they would give me my holiday pay & medical expenses incurred but no salary. I reluctantly agreed to this as this would mean I would get my passports with an exit stamp and be out of this nightmare. I shook hands with the vice principal and left.

The next day I came back to the school to finalise my departure only to be told the following. The head of Manarat School western region, wanted equivalent of �3000 from me in order for me to obtain my passports and to leave the country. He said that this was the money they paid me for my housing allowance. So what we agreed the day before meant nothing, not taking into account 3 months salary which I would loose. Nearly two years later I have heard and read of so, so many stories of people coming to Saudi who have to pay an agent in their host country thousands of dollars to get there. On arrival as standard practise their passports held back by their employers, they are then made to work long, long hours as maids, drivers, labourers, and never get a single riyal in payment. So much for the hadith of our noble Prophet Muhammad may Allaahs peace and blessing be upon him,�pay your worker before his sweat dries� These pour individuals often run away from their employers and as they cant leave the county end up begging or doing other menial jobs under exploitation. Oh Allaah you are the best aid of those who are oppressed and verily the prayers of the oppressed do not go unanswered. Oh Allaah please help these oppressed individuals and remove their hardships and worries, ameen.

He told me to think the offer over and come back the next day to discuss it. The next day I told him there was no way I would ever give him a single riyal. He then proposed we settle on a zero-zero basis. He would pay me nothing I was owed, I would cancel my case against the school at the labour court. And this would entitle me to have my passports back. Over the months I had experienced how badly they treated their employees. I went home and discussed this with my family & friends. The amount of stress this was causing was huge, so we again decided to cut our loses and accept the injustice. On seeing the school manager the next day I was quickly rushed to the labour office so the case against the school could be closed. At the labour court, the adjudicator asked me to sign a form that I had been paid in full all my entitlements and contractual obligations and that I have no outstanding claims against my employer. I told the adjudicator how could I sign this, as they had not paid me a single riyal that was outstanding. He replied I had no choice but to sign the declaration in order that the case could be closed and I could leave the country. The injustice of signing that form is painful to this day. Then back at the school the secretary had similar forms for me to sign that I had been paid all my salaries, medical expenses, etc.

My family and I were then escorted in the school bus to Jeddah airport, all the time the bus driver keeping our passports right upto immigrations. Once we went through immigration it was such an amazing feeling, Alhamdulliah, I was so happy and thankful to Allaah, I felt free and happy that my ordeal had ended. I still remember what the vice principal who worked at Manarat Ryadh for 26 years, who recruited me told me on the phone he was very sorry and did not know any one who was treated as worse as me employed at Manarat School.


During my difficulties I found this prayer particularly helpful, the prayer that is special to the nation of Muslims �Inna Lilahee wa inna elayhee rajioon� � To Allaah we belong and to Him we shall return. Allaah created mankind, we are His, He does to us what He pleases, we do not question Him, to Him we shall return & He will question us. This is the story of mankind summarised into a beautiful prayer.

If I have said anything good or useful than it is from Allaah and if there are any mistakes or shortcomings than these are from myself and shaitan.

I am happy to discuss and answer any questions any one may have, simply email me

[Sheikh N Bake]

Free to practice your religion in Saudi Arabia.

And I'm Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise.

(Oh--you mean as long as it's the correct religion. Never mind.)

[scot47]

So have you now learned that you should not mix Pilgrimage and Work ? And are you happy to be back in the land of the "Kufar" in Leicester or Wolverhampton ?

[brasscat]

5 Jan 2009

Reapproach the attorney, who said you had a good case. Propose the following:

1. Accept the case on a contingency basis.
2. If he wins, he gets a % of the judgement + a % of any punitive damages assessed.
3. If he loses, offer a flat fee to cover only filing fees and documents.

You both will win.
brasscat

[scot47]

Our EFL Teacher, Poet and Aviation Engineer is now an expert in the Saudi legal system !

[brasscat]

5 Jan 2009

Nothing to do with the Saudi Legal System. A very simple and common method for people to get basic justice around the world.

Any attorney knows a contingency case is always fatter than a flat fee case.

It is not rocket science.
brasscat

[Mia Xanthi]

In the United States, attorneys will often work on a contingency basis. However, it is my understanding that in much of the rest of the world, attorneys do not accept cases on contingency. This would explain why the US legal system is bloated with useless lawsuits.

[sheikh radlinrol]

[trapezius]

I am glad your ordeal is over (remember, we met?), but I am very sad and angered that you had to forego all your rights.

This is the Kingdom of Humanity (official motto of the country).

I can say a lot here, but I shall say no more, lest The Great Protectors of The Kingdom on this board inform the forces of evil, and they come to my door and lock me away forever for speaking the truth.