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Shalana · Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 150 Location: Istanbul

Bush quotes:

"Iraq is a very important part of securing the homeland, and it's a very important part of helping change the Middle East into a part of the world that will not serve as a threat to the civilized world, to people like�or to the developed world, to people like�in the United States." �Washington, D.C., April 3, 2007

"And one thing we want during this war on terror is for people to feel like their life's moving on, that they're able to make a living and send their kids to college and put more money on the table."�Appearing on the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, Jan. 16, 2007

"This business about graceful exit just simply has no realism to it at all."�responding to speculation that American forces could be called back from Iraq, Amman, Jordan, Nov. 30, 2006

"You know, when I campaigned here in 2000, I said, I want to be a war President. No President wants to be a war President, but I am one."�Des Moines, Iowa, Oct. 26, 2006

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror."�Interview with CBS News, Washington D.C., Sept. 6, 2006

Shocked

Glad I am on the other side of the pond.

tvik · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 371 Location: here

sorry mr. milkshake, when something earthshatteringly new comes up please let me know.

one subject that is worth discussion is the question of how the democrats will make good on their promise to get out of iraq. and what will be the consequences???

007 · Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject:

misterkodak · Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject:

If they really wanted to stop terrorism, they'd switch to non petroleum based fuels, bomb the oilfields of Saudi Arabia and Iran flat, and pull all US and western interests out of the region. Whether direct or indirect, it's been proven that various Saudi arabian interests have privately backed the insurgency. I was in Saudi back in the early 90's when OBL wasn't yet a household name, yet all of us in the military knew about him. They blew up a Saudi Police training center and guess who the house of Saud got to rebuild? Yes.... the Bin-Laden construction company. Up until the exploitation of oil 50 years ago locusts were the main source of protein in the country. I fail to see why the west backs a country that embraces Shariah.
Iran is a nice legacy left by the "Jimmah Carter" administration. His failure to act swiftly during the hostage crisis of 1979. After the Barbary Pirates episode during Jefferson's presidency(in which quite alot of western ships were siezed by muslim pirates and their cargos taken, and crews sold into slavery) the west should have learned that the only thing these people respect is violence.
I find Saudi, with their Wahabbi islam to be far more oppressive and intolerant than any of the stories I've heard about Iraq. I get tired of the West kissing their asses because of their oil. During the first Gulf War, most able bodied young Saudi men, unlike their Kuwaiti counterparts found ways to move to the West, while Western coalition troops defended their country.
Iraq is more about oil than about freedom. Still, to backdown now, would be another sign of "western weakness" and the consequences of this will follow the withdrawl into the west. If Shrubman wanted to end the war in Iraq, all he'd have to do is relax the wussified "Rules of Engagement" , and limit the media coverage. Coalition troops are fighting western style. We give "enemy combatants" captured a place to sleep, a Koran to read, and 3 square meals a day. They give those captured a bullet in the head (if they're lucky). When did Al-Qaeda and the Mahdi Army sign the Geneva Convention? Think about the media of today during the second world war. How would Monte Cassino, Stalingrad, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, etc. been covered? I think of the stories my grandad told me about the second world war. War is war... with the purpose of killing the enemy, conquering territory, etc. before they do the same. The job of a military is to break things and kill people. Not to "win hearts and minds" or play policemen.
The Bush Administration planned a good war, but failed to plan for the aftermath. Instead of listen to the military heads that be during the invasion (Gen. Tommy Franks asked for over a million troops... was fired and they sent about 400,000 instead) they went for the yes men. Think of how many allied soldiers were on Occupation duty in Germany and Japan after the end of hostilities. Why hasn't the west done the same in Iraq? Now, we're facing the consequences. Then again, what would you expect from someone who's grandpappy used to make oil deals with the third reich?

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:04 am Post subject:

tvik · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 371 Location: here

Is there any other option besides the stay or leave option????
It seems as though there isn't, except a phased withdrawl which would simply prolong the situation.
Mr. Kodak I think you're a bit extreem. The average person in the middle east would rather carry on with life: eating, sleeping, screwing and hanging out with friends. to claim that they are all blood thirsty savages overstates the fact that they resort to violence quicker than the average rich westerner. the hipocrisies of their politics are a mirror of ours and yours too i'm sure.... compromise and hipocracy are synonomous. we are all sell outs... at lest those of us who still want to be part of an enjoyable world.

If I was america I say.... ooops sorry guys... see you later... sorry about the mess... give us a call when you work out your problems.

If i was iraq.... i'd say the same except i'd send america the bill for the clean up and request the heads of all the bush administration.. and i guess blair as well....

no other real solution except for them to figure it out.