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At what point does common sense dethrone culture in Japan?
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, though I have seen more than one fight, but that is over a 10 year period. A lot of people use the subway and train systems here, they have been touted by some transportation experts as the best managed in the world.
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User N. Ame



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaijinalways wrote:
I agree, though I have seen more than one fight, but that is over a 10 year period. A lot of people use the subway and train systems here, they have been touted by some transportation experts as the best managed in the world.


Without question, they are. Singapore is pretty good too, but that's only because you can get the death penalty there for as much as spitting on the train.

I only lived in Tokyo for 1 year, the rest of my time I used small city and inaka train lines. But overall, Japan not only has the best behaved train users in the world, but the best managed, efficient system.
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ironopolis



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it's the best in the world but I'd certainly agree about Japanese public transport putting that of many other countries to shame......between the hours of about 5am and midnight.

Given how generally excellent public transport is here, it baffles me a bit how nowhere in Japan seems to have any all night public transport, even big cities like Tokyo or Osaka, where surely there'd be some demand for it.
So many other big cities around the world have transport that still runs through the night. I've been able to take a bus back to hotel or home at 2 or 3am in London, Seoul, Hong Kong, Prague and even Birmingham - but never in Japan. It's rather odd.

That aside, public transport is indeed excellent. Can't say the same for the roads, however.
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gaijin4life



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Westside of the Eastside, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: At what point does common sense dethrone culture in Japa Reply with quote

....any other examples of Japanese culture getting in the way of common sense or am I on my own here??

This is more an example of `car-culture` over here, but - cars not stopping for pedestrians on or about to cross pedestrian x-ings is pretty wrong, IMHO ...

I nearly got topped the first time I went to cross a ped. x-ing on my bike, - only to realise that the approaching cars werent gonna be stopping anytime soon ! Shocked

Also, country (maybe) `bike road rules`, ie. `everyone goes wherever they want and other people need to be aware of this and alter their course accordingly` .. - which ofcourse is all very well, unless you re a `gaijin` brought up on `keep left` !!! Laughing
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaijinforlife,
I have never seen cars that nearly run over people unless the people were at fault. Japan is a country where pedestrians have the right of way, and if anything, I get annoyed having to wait for them (sometimes, but especially if they seem to be taking their sweet time).

What I have seen is actually the opposite. That is, I have seen little old ladies TRUSTING the pedestrian laws to the point of almost getting killed. They seem to cross the streets wherever and whenever they please, and cars and bikes are forced to stop (if they can). The high pitched shriek of bicycle brakes must be out of their hearing aids, because I've had to slam on the brakes a lot, yet I hardly get a second look from them.
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Glenski, I've had a few people almost hit me in the pedestrian walkway, and the drivers had plenty of time to stop or at least slow down to avoid making me dodge a side mirror Shocked . Some of the drivers can't be bothered, though many do go out of their way to let people cross the street Cool .
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J.



Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 327

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: I ride Reply with quote

a bicycle and walk and I've been almost hit on the crosswalk in both modes. It's mostly people rounding a corner when the crosswalk light is green that's the problem. They tear 'round the corner so they can make the light and almost mow down anyone in their path and you have to stare them in the face to try and get them to stop. If they think they can make it in front of or in back of you with an inch to spare they will. There's no such thing, at least where I live, of cars stopping while the crosswalk is cleared. If they do stop, it's literally inches from you, right up to the line of the crosswalk or inside it, but it's more likely they won't stop but keep inching towards you, which can be unnerving.

And don't even get me started on the person, talking on a cell phone and driving with one hand while rounding a corner, who didn't even see me. I had to stop my bicycle short or get hit. Missed me by 2 inches and didn't even notice.

One of my pet peeves, as you can tell.
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gaijin4life



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Westside of the Eastside, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
.. Japan is a country where pedestrians have the right of way, .. I have seen little old ladies TRUSTING the pedestrian laws to the point of almost getting killed. They seem to cross the streets wherever and whenever they please, and cars and bikes are forced to stop (if they can).


Glenski,

I have honestly thought that the `pedestrians have the right of way..` rule did not apply in Japan !!

Perhaps it is more of a small town thing, but since living in a small town, I now treat pedestrian x-ings with considerable caution. Especially x-ings w/out lights on busy roads.

I have stood and waited (and waited..) on the side of the x-ing for a break in the traffic, or for a considerate driver to stop and let me cross. The number of cars that do not stop when they see people waiting to cross is astounding.

Another peeve - drivers who are so busy looking right when turning / merging into traffic that they forget to look left and nearly take out me and my bike as Im waiting to cross the side-street ... Shocked Rolling Eyes
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Yawarakaijin



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes feel like the whole concept of "WA" (social harmony) is a little confusing.

Situation A. Group of young punks eating McDonalds on the train disturbing everyone, acting as if it is their main goal to challenge every cultural norm in a single train ride. Does anyone yell at these kids? No. That would be disturbing the wa.

Situation B. Drunk salaryman laying down in the middle of the train at 7:00 am. Does anyone chew him out? Tell him to stand up? No. Nine stops later an attentive train boy hauls him out.

I've always found it odd that it's the person who confronts the individual for breaking the wa in the first place that is blamed for disrupting the harmony.
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gaijin4life



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Westside of the Eastside, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrote:
I sometimes feel like the whole concept of "WA" (social harmony) is a little confusing...
I've always found it odd that it's the person who confronts the individual for breaking the wa in the first place that is blamed for disrupting the harmony.

Me too. In situations like those mentioned in the above post, it would seem common sense to me, for an appropriate person to intervene for the sake of `collective harmony` ? I dont get that its better to do nothing and put up with behaviour that disturbs other people.

Incidentally, on a bus into the city one time at the end of winter, the heater was blasting out heat. Pretty quickly it got hot, then uncomfortably hot, - it must have been around 35 degrees. People sweltered and blew out their cheeks and said, `atsui` but that was about it. A young boy sitting in the seat behind me obviously found it very uncomfortable and repeatedly said, `atsui, atsui.` His father agreed with him but that was about it.

Finally an elderly woman stood up and called out to the driver that it was too hot. He turned the heater off and Im sure everyone was thankful to her for taking action. I have no idea where `wa` fits in here but she sorted out the problem ..
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self initative is not a strong trait in Japan, and it is often beaten down, starting from an early age. That's why rote learning is so valued here. Laughing = no thinking, just do it Razz .
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