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forest1979
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 507
Location: SE Asia
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 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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jotham - OP, as I understand, means original post/posting/poster.
Incidentally, good point about the WTO rules and their possible violation. However, was a time frame set as to Taiwan making any changes once it joined the WTO? As such, if it (Taiwan) was given a 10 year frame to reform its educational policy then at the moment it would not be violating any international regulation, and would not be until, what, 2012. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Forest1979 as I initially stated anyone with a knowledge of these issues as they pertain to foreigners in Taiwan would not have needed to ask who Scott was. Simple as that!
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| Asking for evidence? Why not? |
Well for one thing you are asking here on this forum for someone who hasn't posted here for a couple of years now to provide proof about an opinion they gave someone elsewhere 
If you really feel strongly that Scott should provide further information about his opinions on the subject then perhaps the best place to go for this information would be his blog. If we are to believe what you wrote above then you have long been aware of the presence of his blog so why not post your questions over there? Seems common-sense to me.
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| The OP put forward a comment and as someone interested in the subject, having worked for many years in a local uni and knowing of the present rule and its inflexible nature, I was interested into how they knew of any likely transition in distance degree ruling. |
So why not just ask that? Why come out and suggest that Scott has no idea of what he is talking about? Surely, again, that is the common-sense approach.
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| Since when I have written "changes are only possible by reaching the top of the chain"? |
On more than one occasion you have mocked people who have suggested here that individuals can create change in government procedure. You were very clear about your opinion that Taiwan has a top down approach to these things and that in your opinion it is naieve of anyone to think that they can create change by standing up for themselves. It seems that you want to back away from this assertion now and I don't blame you as it was clearly unfounded!
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| I am though very happy that the girl who you know of got her problem resolved. But, can I ask how long it took to sort out her predicament? What did her employers do to shift MoE opinion? Guanxi? |
Shame that you didn't ask before you pounced. It didn't take long - less than two months to collect all the required documents and get everything arranged. Her employer in Taiwan had no part of the changes. She wanted to work legally here but was getting knocked back. She contacted me. I told her what I knew. She then followed up with the relevant government department and they outlined what she needed to do. She set about doing it and she is legally employed in Taiwan now. Guanxi had nothing to do with it. She was a newbie to Taiwan and didn't know anyone to have any guanxi.
She merely asked for the process and followed it, and this is why I don't have much time for people who make blanket statements about us not having rights here.
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| Ending this post, why would I say that you're an expert on distance degrees? To be honest given the nature of what you write there's many people in front of you in the queue if I were looking for advice on distance degrees. |
So why ask me then?
Looks to me that this discussion has run its course.
Oh, and yes OP does mean original poster so in the case of this thread jotham you are 'it'.
Jotham while you might be right with all of the WTO stuff I think that you will have a much better chance of sorting things out by concentrating on the issue locally. I doubt that you will get much help from back home on this. |
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forest1979
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 507
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Clark - I am very confused by what you wrote but I won't respond in kind to your comments as it would be petty. However I do commend you on your ability to know that anyone mentioned in a thread by the name of Scott automatically means its Scott Sommers. I am sure Scott with be quite honored to be so well thought of by TEFLers in Taiwan, and to be associated with any debate on educational policy. I shall ask him about this next time I see him. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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This has nothing to do with protectionism and even less with the WTO!
The rules apply to all, Chinese (Taiwanese) and foreigners alike. Many many countries do not accept distance degrees for work permit purposes as there are so many 'dodgy' institutions prepared to offer near worthless distance 'qualifications'. Taiwan is far from unusual in this regard.
And as for your local Trade Office bringing a case against Taiwan at the WTO about this. Get real!
Last edited by stillnosheep on Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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"As Scott says, this ruling will change."
Clark, why do you insist on calling this a statement of opinion rather than a statement of fact for which another reader might reasonably want evidence? It seems that Scott knows that something will happen in the future. What is his basis for saying this?
It's simple English, really.  |
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jotham
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: |
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By the way, here is Scott Sommer's blog on it:
July 23:
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| 100% agree [with taking personal action on distance degrees]. The MOEs and universities in Korea and Japan have no trouble handling distance education. This is an unfair trade barrier that violates the WTO. It would be an interesting flex of foreign muscle to try and direct legal action on this issue. |
http://scottsommers.blogs.com/taiwanweblog/2004/07/distance_degree_1.html |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| Forest1979 as I initially stated anyone with a knowledge of these issues as they pertain to foreigners in Taiwan would not have needed to ask who Scott was. Simple as that! |
Scott Sommers?
Who the hell is Scott Sommers? |
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jotham
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 77
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forest1979
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 507
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Funny...but the first reply to Scott Sommer's blog thread on distance degrees, a reply by Professor Clyde Warden, basically nails Scott's argument on numerous points. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| forest1979 wrote: |
| Clark - I am very confused by what you wrote but I won't respond in kind to your comments as it would be petty. |
Actually I didn't expect that you would respond as it is pretty hard to argue with common sense.
| forest1979 wrote: |
| However I do commend you on your ability to know that anyone mentioned in a thread by the name of Scott automatically means its Scott Sommers. I am sure Scott with be quite honored to be so well thought of by TEFLers in Taiwan, and to be associated with any debate on educational policy. I shall ask him about this next time I see him. |
That's not hard given the context. And as someone who purports to be familiar with Scott, I remain surprised that you even raised the question as to who Scott was in the first place hence my earlier comment.
| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| Clark, why do you insist on calling this a statement of opinion rather than a statement of fact for which another reader might reasonably want evidence? It seems that Scott knows that something will happen in the future. What is his basis for saying this? |
To my knowledge no one can predict the future so obviously a statement of what is going to happen in the future is based upon opinion not fact. I think that taken out of context it is easy to argue that it is a suggested statement of fact, but taken it it's orginal context it is pretty clear to me that he is making a prediction based upon opinion.
But as I suggested to Forest1979 if you or anyone else want clarification then probably the most productive thing to do would be to contact Scott directly. I am not trying to speak for Scott I just don't understand the suggestion that the OP should provide proof of an opinion that someone else expressed. |
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