Job Discussion Forums

[mdk]

[Sef]

Maybe I've got different expectations (got too used to busses in China) but I haven't found the metro too bad. I mean, it's crowded but so's the London underground! I live in Dmitrovskaya which is 2 stops from the circle line up on the grey line and although the metro's always crowded (unless it's v late) I've only been on it a couple of times when it's been so rammed I couldn't even get a hand on the handrail and was basically being held up by the weight of people around me. That was at about 8am. Oh, and I got shut in the doors one time. That hurt. My friend lives in Electrosavodskaya (?) - north east on the blue line - and she says the metro from there is ALWAYS completely packed. But she starts work earlier than I do (smug, smug, smug.)
I think my neighbourhood's okay although it does have the packs of stray dogs and packs of stray drunken guys the others have mentioned. But I'm still a newbie (only been here 6 weeks) so I've yet to experience a Moscow winter. What the hell are Yak-trax?! At the moment it takes me about ten minutes to walk from my appartment to the metro but I gather that time's gonna increase come winter

[maruss]

Much as I hate to say it,the Moscow metro is not only overcrowded to an extent which makes it uncomfortable,but also dangerous in some cases!For instance,if you travel on the dark blue line you will see that the carriages were made during the Soviet era in Leningrad and some are so old that they are literally falling apart,as one driver discreetly admitted to me and a Russian friend,who is a relativeof his!He considers the whole system a disaster waiting to happen,even though there are new stations and rolling stock on some lines which are gradually being replaced.A further problem is the increasing over-crowding due to more and more people coming into Moscow to work on a daily basis from outlying satellite towns and this is also reflected in the increasing traffic congestion on the roads.But as with so many things in Russia,from airline crashes which were hushed-up in the Soviet era to more modern day disasters like the Kursk submarine, the official attitude towards individuals is that people get what is given to them by those in power and complaining and questioning is not expected or tolerated!
It is hard for a foreigner to appreciate this unpleasant facet of life there because we are accustomed to a more open civil society in most western countries!
As for the bonus of attractive passengers on the metro,this is probably true,but bear in mind that looking is all you will probably do!Russians greatly value privacy,probably because they had so little of it during Soviet times,even in their overcrowded communal appartments!So trying to chat-up pretty girls on the metro will be viewed with disdain or even suspicion and may land you in serious trouble,especially if they are accompanied by a Russian male!

[spiral78]

I was, in fact, told by students (not because they'd seen me do anything rude! but just as a general rule) that it's considered very bad manners to look openly at fellow metro passengers. Unless it's a quick thanks for some little consideration.

[maruss]

They are dead right about that,although almost anything else goes,especially pushing and shoving other people to get into trains when they are full and this might of course result in some involuntary body contact with others who are not just beautiful,but often smelly and repulsive so be prepared!

[mdk]

Yak-trax are made in Canada. If you go to

www.campmor.com

and look at footwear accessories you can find a variety of things for walking on slippery ice. I like Yak-trax because they are easy to remove and put on yet they are very good for slippery ice. You should not have to worry about slippery ice until maybe November in Moscow. In Tomsk you would need them until May, but last winter the snow was pretty much gone by late March in Moscow.

I would not go so far as to approach a pretty girl on the Moscow subway, but I am over 60. Having said that it is still possible to remark that it is pleasant weather from time to time -maybe not on a crowded subway car, that is true. If the lady replies, then she is open to a conversation. I usually save that for a park or something. And finally, it is always nice to look at beautiful women. Moscow women seem to tolerate a bit of discreet oogling a lot better than a western woman would in my own opinion. It never does to leer and slaver, but something a bit more restrained should be OK.


I once had a left over chicken wing and took it along to feed the dogs hanging out around the subway station. The one I chose was sacked out next to a heating grate. He had been fed so much by the passers-by that he only cocked his eye in askance at the sight of the chicken wing and rolled over.

[maruss]

I was soon warned by Russian friends not to take pity on anyone of any description who I found begging near or on the metro because they are all apparently part of organised professional groups run by criminals etc. although I found it hard to believe when I saw guys with either one or both legs missing who go around wheeling themselves on small trollies.....
Any comments?

[mdk]

I would usually give a small amount to the beggars around a church.

It is pretty unusual for Russians to beg away from a church. Usually they will be selling something like two heads of garlic and a carrot.

Oh, now I remember the people in the metro. I would not give to the pregnant woman asking for money, but I sometimes gave to the legless veterans. Sometimes they would come onto the metro train and I would give a few rubles if I felt like it, if they were in wheelchairs. The kids playing the accordion I would ignore.

I would usually give to the people with puppies and kittens from the shelters.

[expatella_girl]

[mdk]

Once upon a time in Tomsk it was dead winter and the streets were icy. I walked up to an ostanovka on Red Army street and the first thing I thought I saw was a kangaroo. In fact, it was a young guy with one leg and no prosthesis. He was getting around by hopping like a kangaroo -- on an icy side walk.

What I mean, it's an amazing country. Most Russians I ever met would almost sleep in the woods before they would accept a handout so I am not surprised that they would insist on giving back change.

But it is wrong to think that they are not charitable people. They show their humanity in a different way, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Dostoevsky did not invent the Brother's Karamazov out of thin air, so you have your Alexis running around too.

[maruss]

Understanding Russia is very difficult for a foreigner who does not know it's history...
I learned a lot from experience and recommend everyone to read a few serious and objective books before trying to form any opinion:
1)Gulag by Anne Applebaum which analyses the way the system operated in Stalins time and how the sheer brutality has left an impression on the soul of the people.What is scary is that none of the perpetrators have ever been punished and although these issues were discussed quite openly after Perstroika,there is now a tendency to brush them under the carpet again-this should be of concern to everyone!
2)Anything by Anna Politkovskaya,especially 'Putins Russia' and her diaries which came out this year which are the last thing she wrote before she was murdered last autumn(she told me she expected to die before her time but I didn't believe her!)
3)Two novels which sound frighteningly plausible given the way things seem to be developing(for Mamantovs neo-fascists think of Nashi!)-one is Archangel by Robert Harris whose background research makes its atmosphere so compelling for anyone interested and even living in present day Russia the other is Stalins ghost by Martin Cruz Smith which sems to compliment the first book in many ways..

Not propaganda,unfortunately-Oil and gas can combat any opposition,or so it seems in todays world!

[expatella_girl]

We must be living in different Russias. Or perhaps what I percieve in them as extravagant arrogance you see as *pride*.

Would you like to cite some meaningful examples that they are a "charitable people?"

Like the Russians who told Maurus not to give double amputees money? Like the schemers who steal the money that the amputees collect? Like the whole culture which abandons its' old women and leaves them to beg for survival? The same culture that auctions off its' blond-haired blue-eyed orphans internationally to the highest bidders?

Surely Russians care about their own nuclear families. But for their countrymen people outside of that circle? Nyet.

P.S. Dostoevsky has been dead for more than a hundred years. So has been his Russia.

[mdk]

[rusmeister]

The dangers of generalizations...

Honestly, you guys are all right. There's good and bad everywhere.

Sometimes it seems to me that mdk idealizes Russia, but I have to say that he has a point here. You can find people responding to suffering, just like anywhere else.

I think expatella girl said something wonderful and pointed about giving charity and having compassion (I tried to post a response, but it got lost in the black hole of posting) - a good reminder to all of us to get off our high horses when we see people less fortunate than we are.

Dostoevsky's Russia is not 'dead'. Again, you'll find the good, bad and ugly everywhere, and Dostoevsky describes Russia's incarnations of that pretty well.

Maruss, you are quite right about gas and oil! (But a materialist view of the situation will make it look grimmer than it actually is.)

Christ said (regarding giving) "Whatsoever you have done to the least of these (the unfortunate), you have done it to Me." You don't even have to believe it for it to be true!

[maruss]

When things at the top are rotten,as in the case of Russia,what can you expect from those lower down the scale?Mind you there is probably more kindness among the poor in Russia than among the revolting neo-fascist elite which now rules the country and holds everyone else in disdain!Their loyalty to their own country can be clearly seen from the money they spend in London on everything from clothes to private schools for their vile kids and luxury cars and homes which few Britons,let alone Russians could ever even dream of owning!Putin commented about Anna Politkovskaya that she 'was not an important person in Russia'-Stalin said that'one mans death is a tragedy while a million is just a statistic' and I think we can all draw our conclusions from these statements!Expecting someone who has been trained and taught by the K.G.B. to understand the meaning of democracy and human values such as we too often under appreciate abroad is naive at best and anyone who is hoping Ivanovs deceptive smile will bring better days if he succeeds Putin is in for a very rude awakening!The methods and profile of Al Khaida and other terrorist organisations may seem a world away from those of the K.G.B. but they are both equally ruthless,make no mistake about it-using radioactive substances to dispose of an opponent has shown us that already!
I have tried to have this conversation with many Russian people but most of them simply cannot see that what their government is doing is wrong and my only conclusion is because such things are considered normal to them!