Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

Every place can be different, I suppose. But I never heard of it taking two weeks to get a "release" letter. And all of mine have ben directly from the school. That doesn't mean that it was done right, though.

If worse comes to worse, and you want to sty in China, you just have to "exit" and then come "back" in

[Dalian Veteran]

Personally, I think China's visa system is in need of reform. The current work visa gives way too much power to your employer. Your employer controls your right to stay in the country, where you can live, and whether or not you can change jobs without having to leave the country again. If your employer really wants to, they have the power to deport you (well, temporarily deport you anyway, until you can get another visa to re-enter the country). I've heard of a teacher at this other school, not my school, who complained to his employer for cheating him on his salary. The employer basically said, "O.K., if you're going to be such a jerk, we'll just cancel your residence permit and foreign expert's certificate without a release letter, and you'll have 48 hours to leave the country." So, that's what happened. And this teacher was married, too. But luckily, his wife was also a foreign teacher. If he was married to a Chinese local who didn't have a green card or a visa to his home country, he would have been screwed. It was this story that caused sleepless nights and inspired me to convince my Chinese wife to get a passport and begin applying for the U.S. immigrant visa. Otherwise, your employer could theoretically have even more power over you.

It is one thing for the employer to be the initial sponsor of your visa, your green book, and your red book. But once those things are in your hand, you should be given the freedom to be able to move or change jobs without your initial employer's permission. The current system is way too rigid and based on traditional control methodology.

[Dalian Veteran]

There's something I want to add to that last post.

I know that many Chinese employers are worried that some foreign teachers may take advantage of them and break the contract. But I still think there are better alternatives to the ridiculous release letter system that the Chinese immigration authorities have put in place. Here are some alternatives:

1) Have the contract stipulate that leaving early will involve taking the costs of visa sponsorship out of your last paycheck. Many contracts also have penalty fees to account for administrative costs of early withdrawal., or

2) The foreign teacher initially pays the costs of work visa sponsorship and is re-imbursed for these costs upon completion of the contract. Leaving early will negate this reimbursement.

3) Treat the foreign teachers better, then employers won't have to use these draconian control methods in the first place.

Generally, numbers #1 and #2 are already applied anyway. So this release letter system is a bit of overkill.

As for re-assurance to the immigration authorities, I would put it this way: Since foreigners have to register when they change addresses anyway, why all the fuss? How are these ridiculous release letters supposed to stem the tide of "immigration"? Those working illegally under the F visa have this freedom of mobility anyway. These extra control measures that the Z visa brings actually does more to dissuade people from taking the fully legal route.

And then this so-called issue about unlicensed or substandard schools poaching on legal teachers who left certified institutions? How is that a bad thing? Hiring a legal teacher actually takes such a school a step in the right direction of doing things legally and caring about teaching quality. (It all boils down to protectionism on the part of the certified schools who have all the guanxi.) But generally, teachers don't want to go for the shady schools anyway, unless they are very desperate, for fear that the management will be even more traditional or shady than at the one they left.

[arioch36]

the school cannot cancel the residence permit and foreign certificate. These are not issued by the school. They are not the schools property. When you recieve these two certificates, you should let the school make copies, just like the school should make a copy of your passport. You should not give any of these back to the school, unles you totally trust them.

If the school wants one of these documents, you should say what for? And offer to go with them, not give it to them.

[Roger]

I can't see eye to eye with you Dalian Veteran. What's the problem with a work visa being employer-speicific and location-speicific? I am as vulnerable as you are, and have experienced a number of injustices, including being held under house arrest by the PSB for breaches of laws governing where I was supposed to be working and where I was supposed to be housed; both these breaches were committed by my Chinese businessman boss, not by me; he finally had to settle the fine, and what did he do next? Fire me! BUt, it saved me my skin - I was not deported and fined by the PSB myself!

Still, I think this is a reasonable arrangement. It owes its existence to the fact that the CHinese authorities take an inordinae amount of care to protect you against all manner of adversities, dangers and annoyances emanating from the local populace. True, no joke! You ae supposed to be registered at the nearest PSB for your own good and protection, and the police will disapprove of any housing arrangement deemed unsafe for you. Ditto for jobs - your wellbeing is one of their considerations, though probably not in the top ten ranks.
I think you fail to appreciate that you are a privileged person in a society that affords privileges only to its moneyed and connected few. Besides, is it right for foreign nationals to perform a job that is by right a typical local-content one? Don't tell me you are doing such an imortant work that only foreigners can do! That's laughable - just look at the majority of countries the world over!
I do not understand how the school can cancel any documents; this is the realm of the PSB. But even if your residence permit is cancelled, you can stay in China as long as your visa is valid (though not, legally, in the domicile provided by your employer). If a school resorts to such blackmailing then it's a bad school, and there is little you can do. Sad, I know, and I know a number of bad schools.
One more reason why such stringent rules need to be in place. In some locations the PSB do actually look after you and your rights!
So long as you are above board, anyway!

[yvechina]

OK ........I got my release letter....I mentioned my Embassy and the name of the lady in Beijing that looks after "Foreign Experts". However I didnt get my residents permit or my foreign expert certificate. Should I kick up a stink???

[arioch36]

Chances are your school is illegal and can't get you the residence permit? Or have they taken it away? The rsidence permit is your, and they can't take it away. I would say the foreign expert card in not that important, but if you are legal, it is easy for your school.

Yeah, if I didn't get my residence permit, or my school took it away, I would be going down to the foreign expert bureau and raising a stink.

Your school can amend your residence permit (with your permission) to agree with the end of your contract

[Guest]

Hi
I will be going back to Australia at the end of June for 6 weeks and then coming back to the same School for another 10 months. I will not be paid for the Holidays (July and August) because I originally said I was returning to Australia on the 30th June. I am quite happy about that but now that I am coming back here - I just wondered what the procedure was in relation to Visa, medical etc. Will I virtually have to start over?

Roger may know some of these ansers.

Thanks

[Roger]

yvechina:
the FE cert is often kept by your employer. I don't know if that is legal, but it can be explained as a necessity as they do have to make sure it is being returned upon your completion of your contract.
You would need it at the bank for money conversion purposes; if your school takes care of your foreign currency needs, then raising a stink is not warranted!

Rhonda:
I think you will have to undergo the same procedures as last time you came to China, i.e. passing a medical exam (HIV-status is of paramount importance), then visa and related documentation.
Make sure this time you get a multiple-entry or two-entry visa so it does not expire if you hop over to Hong Kong, Macau or AUS during your legal employment period!
In some cases, the foreign teacher has to pay the difference between the one-entry visa and a multiple entry one (it's quite substantial but worth the extra outlay!).

[Just a guy]

A good related thread....

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=7075