Job Discussion Forums

[eha]

Sorry this kind of discussion upsets you, VS. Nothing like this was ever solved by denial either. The original poster is obviously someone in need of support; instead, s/he is being treated with great crassness (are YOU being over-sensitive; DEAL with it; pull yourself together, etc.) Some posters have given possibly useful suggestions, but why do so many people prefer to pretend that such things don't happen, or that they're some kind of personal problem for the person bringing the complaint? What happened to 'The personal IS the political?" As I said before, no point in discussing it until everyone has at least some grasp of the background: READ THE LITERATURE. It's going to be a long long time before the workplace is fit for civilized life, if this is the kind of thing that goes on among the 'creme de la creme'---I'm assuming that most of the people on this forum have at least TWO higher educational degrees. And this is the result?????
Management often isn't in a position to solve such problems, and in any case, 'management', to paraphrase Sartre, is just 'other people'. They do not have a monopoly on people knowledge--- indeed, a lot of what I observe and read (on this forum, among other places) suggests that a deficiency of such knowledge is one of the prerequisites for promotion. Good managers are seen as people who can keep the institution running, even if it means compromising truth and justice.
Oh--- never mind. Just read the relevant stuff--- I'm not making any of this up. Just google "Harassment in the workplace".

[veiledsentiments]

Sorry eha, you seem to be the only one who is 'upset' here. I've been in the workplace either in business or in education for over 40 years. Nothing has changed. Harassment has and will be there as long as there are humans who will always make power plays. Denial is not the issue... You deal with it... or you don't.

And IMHO, anonymous public boards seem to be mostly used for ax grinding. It is as often as not the 'harasser' who is the one here posting the sob story.

VS

[Stephen Jones]

Why don't you become a lawyer eha. After all you have one advantage over real lawyers. You don't need to know a single thing about the case before giving your advice. If you don't manage to be a lawyer, then you could always be a Tarot reader; no knowledge required there either.

We have no idea what the poster is talking about. Your reply "google harrassment" is about as useful as giving the advice 'google crime' when somebody asks if they should go to the police.

When I am considering legal action I go and see my lawyer. The first thing he does is sit me down for forty-five minutes and get me to tell him every single relevant detail, whilst his wife sits down and takes notes. He then asks me what outcomes I am looking for. Only after that is possible action discussed.

If you are encouraging the OP to take legal action without knowing anything of the case then you are being totally irresponsible.

[eha]

I hope you guys don't teach 'Critical Reading'! In fact, SJ, I advised the original poster NOT to follow up the case, because it's very likely s/he wouldn't get the type of support this kind of case needs. In such cases, the complainant often ends up even unhappier than before, because of the 'victim-blaming', etc. that goes on. And it wasn't the original poster I advised to google 'harassment': it was all those people who (also without any knowledge of the situation, although you seem to take only myself to task for that) were advising him / her to 'go to management'; 'ask if s/he were being 'oversensitive' ; 'deal with it', etc. I hope they never have a colleague or relative who suffers from depression!
If anyone is really interested in these --- very serious --- issues, at least read Daniel Goleman, or 'bullyonline', or one of the the other websites on the issue, before you start dissing other people's responses. And it might be a good idea to look up the harassment policies of various universities too, before assuming that you know it all.
And, VS, I used 'upset' as a way of saying that if you want to take an issue seriously, you might consider debating it, rather than dismissing it. Why don't you want to read about such matters on this forum? I'm not particularly interested in the endless exchange of detail about contracts, housing, salaries, etc that fills most of this forum--- but I wouldn't dream of telling people that it's not a suitable place to discuss what interests them, just because it's not a priority for me.
Hiawatha, any luck? Hang in there.

[Stephen Jones]

My gut feeling like yours eha is that it would be unwise to take the case to court. But as we don't know anything about the case it is pointless to try and give advice, other than see a lawyer, and even that advice should be tendered gingerly.

[veiledsentiments]

Exactly Stephen...

I don't need to 'google' harassment or read any books about it. By this point in life, I could write one.

This is a common sense issue, and on the board it becomes nothing more than he said/she said with no way for us to know which is the guilty person. We have already had one perfect example of that this year on the board with some posters in Salalah. The 'harasser' came on here and posted lies and allegations and necessitated extensive editing and deletions by the mods and finally a banning of the poster. Considering that this thread was post number one by a new person just after all the dust had settled on that 'dawsha', my suspicion was immediately that it was the banned person back trying to start things again.

Personally I don't want to see that kind of garbage on here.

VS

[omanized]

eha, your demanding and slightly arrogant posts regarding the literature in the field of harrassment are intimidating to me. I am clearly not as well read as you are and probably don't hold as many degrees. Given your superior intellectual position, I am overwhelmed by the threat of your erudition and may suffer from prolonged feelings of inferiority.

I am going to raise this issue with the admin - there is no place for bullying, direct or indirect, on this forum ! Consider yourself warned !

I am not defending legitimate harrassment but there is also a culture of victimhood which is encouraged by therapists, doctors and other 'experts' who want to micro-manage our lives and create litigious situations out of superficial conflicts.

So, the advice to "deal with it" has just as much merit given the lack of info as your admonitions to burn up our library cards reading about how victimized we all are - imagine the retrospective harrassment we will all discover after reading these titles ! I'm calling my lawyer post-haste !

omzd

[eha]

Omanized: MY lawyer (s) say that calling a person 'slightly arrogant' for being articulate and politically informed, is a breach of human rights. Moreover, you made the tactical error of writing it down, so I have physical evidence to bring to court, while you only have your personal neurosis about inferiority, which is far more difficult to prove. SO SUE ME, or complain to Mngment. And see where it gets you.
By the way, has anyone read about the case in Auckland, where a professor was fired for sending an inappropriate email to a student? I'ts on the Emirates forum.

[omanized]

Ha ! I'm glad you get the point - check your harrassment books about the burden of proof and see that I could easily bring a case to bear over something as silly - win it? Who knows or cares, but imagine the hassle, expense and outright damage to your job and future if a public case was made.

It's on another thread I think but that Emirati case with the sacked prof is shameful - losing his job over that ?? A disgrace for the University admin. Apparantly he apologized the next day by email and she accepted it and then took it to the mgment. The email was rude and absolutely inappropriate but worth his job..?

omzd

[eha]

I think YOU're the one who misses the point: bullies are VERY GOOD INDEED at covering their tracks! No way will THEY put it in writing-- and born geniuses at projecting the blame onto the target: (s/he's being 'oversensitive' --- who the hell decides a thing like that? S/ 'he's paranoid -- imagine the problems that kind of allegation causes the target in an environment that doesn't make much distinction between 'paranoid' and 'mentally ill'; and one that's also thankfully been eliminated: She's pregnant / menopausal / pre-or post-menstrual. )
I think you read me wrong: I know perfectly well there's a 'culture of victimhood', and that political correctness is often abused to the point of idiocy. But there's also a culture of bullydom and jockdom, especially in so-called 'patriarchal' environments-- and I stand by what I say: bullies and jocks HAVE NO PLACE AS ROLE MODELS FOR THE YOUNG.
Anyone else find the professor's sacking (the Auckland story) outrageous?
Look at all the pro-student responses, though; some of them from people who ought to know better. I wonder if the Uni of Auckland has an equally protective policy towards teachers being abused by students?

[eha]

Hiawatha: by the way, ARE you the Scourge of Salalah, as you've been accused by VS above?

[veiledsentiments]

Now who can't read well... I didn't "accuse" her. Having suspicion is not an accusation. Again it is common sense on an anonymous board with a history of dodgy posters.

VS

[eha]

Hiawatha: amend to: 'as suspected by VS above'?

[scot47]

Litigation never solved anything - except the lawyers' financial problems. Forget it, learn from it and move on.

[Hiawatha]

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