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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: Online Programs |
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| Shan-Shan wrote: |
| My comments were not directed at Masters of Arts/Masters of Education programs, many of which require residency, actual hours in a classroom, and substantial graduate level coursework, but rather those Masters in TESOL programs offered completely online where interaction with classmates and professors are severely curtailed due to geography, not to mention the paucity of resources available should one be studying/doing research in a country whose libraries and periodicals are inaccessible due to language limitations. |
Ah, thanks for clarifying your meaning. 
Regards,
fat_c |
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Sheikh Inal Ovar
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Shan-Shan wrote: |
| And to answer your question, no, I do not possess an MA nor M.Ed |
And thanks for qualifying it too ... |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing wrong with being a DOS, but if you have ever seen the headaches they have . . .
And, who fills in on short notice when someone doesn't show up? You do.
For a far more comfortable career - MA/M.Ed. Geez, I sound like an advert. The British Council will soon send someone in to shoot me. |
As a working DOS, let me say, "RIGHT ON." I like my job. I really do. But I'm 33, and don't see myself doing this till I'm 50. I don't think I would last. MA here I come!
(Though I am in no way affiliated with the British Council, I have to admit that shooting you has occured to me.  Not because of your "adverts," just out of jealousy over your vacation time.)
Best,
Justin |
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Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| And thanks for qualifying it too ... |
One need not possess a mail-order version Masters in TESOL to be aware of the near absent entrance requirements and non-rigorous graduation requirements. |
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Sheikh Inal Ovar
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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So you're now simply talking about MA's instantly purchased online?
Or are you also talking about MA's acquired by distance learning ... it's hard to know what you're going on about ... |
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sheeba
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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See I think that mail order Degree will make me more employable in the future. Also I would do the research whether doing the dgree or not so why not get the bit of paper saying you've done it.
Otherwise China ,5000 a month, living in a box will be with you for a while longer. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| wildchild wrote: |
-I have a BA in Linguistics, emphasis/option in English as a Second Language (my school recently changed the title of this option to TESOL).
-One of my hotshot Profs...didn't understand that the MA TESOL has now become a kind of professional diploma, similar to an MBA; it's for people who did their BA in something else.
-I started an MA TESOL program at a different school but stopped soon after as I had quickly realized that I was just repeating what I had already done for my BA;
-most MA TESOL programs schedule many undergrad and grad student classes together. Of course they give you a token, extra assignment for every course and at the end you may choose to do a thesis, a project, or a comprehensive exam.
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Exactly. But you will probably find that you have to do an MA in the end anyway. That's what I'm facing now. My BA isn't linguistics related, but the universities in my province in Canada has a "TESL certificate" level that is required before doing the MA. The problem is that it assumes that you will then stick around in Canada- not even Canada, but just one province in it, actually, or go back to that province for long enough to get an MA, when it makes far more sence to do one by distance because the supervised practicum was throughout the certificate. The MAs from this province don't have a practicum. However, none of them offer distance degrees. That leads people to just pretty much redo their work and as you say, have one or two little extra things for each class.
But it's all about the letters. In the eyes of employers, a certificate will never be equal to a BA/B.Ed (these same programs used to be called a B.Ed- TESL from at least one fo the schools in the province, because it is the same length of time as a B.ed in the province) and a bachelor degre will never be considered equivalent to an MA, even if there is no difference at all between them.
So since that's the case, the letters "MA" or "M.ED" are something that you need. Although it's more expensive to do a distance degree, you can spread the cost out over several years while working, whereas going back to Canada (for example) would mean not working for the three terms and so, from a personal economy viewpoint, you could look at the cost of the Canadian degree as being the cost of tuition, books etc plus the increased cost of living (rent outside of Tokyo is far cheaper than in big cities in Canada- mainly because you just can't get small apartments there), plus the amount of money you would earn in those 12 months outside of Canada working full time in your EFL position, or 15 months- if you take the summer off- minus the amount of money you could expect to earn during that time in Canada (not a whole lot, unless you got a warehouse job or something during the summer- summer language camps for which you often spend almost every waking hour working for, usually pay about $12 an hour for five hours a day). Now the distance degree is really not all that expensive at all.
I really think that with skyrocketting fees and the current need for graduate degrees in a variety of situations (getting a graduate degree now gets you the kind a job a BA used to get you, a BA is getting you the kind of job a high school diploma alone got you and a high school diploma is now required for jobs that used to be done by people who left school- either voluntarily, or involuntarily- without finishing their diploma), that distance education is going to become the way most people get their graduate degrees, and increasingly their undergraduate degrees as well. Many people can't afford both school and residence- I know my parents couldn't, and there just weren't summer jobs that paid a tonne of money where I lived. But if you don't live close enough to a big city or elsewhere that has a university, then you pretty much can't go now if that's your situation. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| But it's all about the letters. In the eyes of employers, a certificate will never be equal to a BA/B.Ed (these same programs used to be called a B.Ed- TESL from at least one fo the schools in the province, because it is the same length of time as a B.ed in the province) and a bachelor degre will never be considered equivalent to an MA, even if there is no difference at all between them. |
Yes, I agree for the most part. While an MA in TESOL done distance or on campus is a valuable qualification, it is not the only route to being a good teacher--but it is the one that universities / college want and not just ones in Korea as Shan Shan implied. Also not all distance ed programs (I am not sure what "on-line" means) are created equal either as anyone who has done any amount of research into the topic well knows. There are good and bad programs just like any other discipline.
Is there really no difference between a BA in Linguistics and an MA? It would depend on the program, but I would imagine there must be differences otherwise they would lose their accreditation.
In the US, I know from personal experience that accrediting agencies put a lot of pressure on ESL programs in higher education to hire only people with MAs in TESOL or a related postgraduate degree. Whether or not we agree with that policy does not really matter. What does matter is that you choose the qualification that best suits your career path and academic/ professional interests. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Shan-Shan,
Have you researched all of the MA programs out there? There are plenty that are on-site and rigorous. Do you think they come in Cracker Jack boxes? Your attitude seems very reminiscent of the "I don't have a degree and I don't want one because I have a 'feeling' that I will be a good teacher and I don't need no stinkin' piece of paper to prove anything!" that we see here from time to time.
d |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Whoever said that 'most' MA programs schedule 'many' grad and undergrad classes together clearly hasn't done much research. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: In the end it has been worth it |
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| denise wrote: |
| "I don't have a degree and I don't want one because I have a 'feeling' that I will be a good teacher and I don't need no stinkin' piece of paper to prove anything!" |
Denise, did you read my mind? I was going to head down that road response-wise. The gears in my head were crankin' so loud, you all probably heard them.  In the end I decided to just let it go.
For the record, I just finished one of those high-priced M.A.s in TESOL. No, not online, but a real live breathing one, in person, old school, old fashioned brick and mortar style. It was a good experience and I would do it again. I write that without hesitation.
Now...to attend to those student loans.
Regards,
fat_c |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: Huh? |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Whoever said that 'most' MA programs schedule 'many' grad and undergrad classes together clearly hasn't done much research. |
Agreed. I'm not sure that this is really that common.
Uh...this sort of thing was impossible at the institution where I completed my MA in TESOL.
Regards,
fat_c |
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wildchild
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 519
Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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spiral78 wrote:
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| Whoever said that 'most' MA programs schedule 'many' grad and undergrad classes together clearly hasn't done much research. |
Damn. Did I say "most"? How about "many"? 
you're absolutely right. I haven't done research on this issue. I was a student in two Linguistics departments at two different schools in two different states, once as an undergrad and once as a grad, where all of my classes were mixed; I generalized, I'm sorry
For those who have done the research, perhaps spiral, it would be nice of you to post a list of a few programs that don't mix grads and undergrads.
Last edited by wildchild on Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wildchild
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 519
Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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gambate said:
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| I really think that... distance education is going to become the way most people get their graduate degrees, and increasingly their undergraduate degrees as well. |
If I ever go back, it will be by distance. From my experience, being on campus serves as a good excuse for the Prof. to stand up there and lecture at you. By distance, you actually may have more authentic interaction with your classmates in the form of live chats (skype, msn messenger) or asynchronous forums such as this one. These opportunities for interaction, however, will need to be built into the syllabus/academic program. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps there's a distinction between U.S. and British and Canadian universities, for example. I don't know what happens in U.S.-based programs, but it would have been absolutely unthinkable to mix the groups in my British uni, or in the Canadian programs I'm familiar with.
Ok, so 'Don't mix'
U. Birmingham, U. Leicester, U.Surrey, England. U. Calgary, Canada (I'm 99% sure of this info - not 100%!)
Sorry I haven't time (or personal incentive, already having a reputable MA) to do an exhaustive search on the issue.
I can agree with you that a program that mixed undergrad and postgrad students would not be desirable. |
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