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Tarheel 13
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Outer Banks, NC
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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Worldly wrote: |
| Tarheel 13 wrote: |
In other words, you might want to compartmentalize your western views and beliefs and unlock them when you're back home. |
Respecting intellectual property, honesty (not cheating), and classroom etiquette that enhances learning and self-improvement in the 21st Century are NOT solely Western practices. They are international standards. They are practiced, respected, and sustained by multinational educational institutions, worldwide.
Cheating, corruption, and disregard for the rule of law may be Chinese educational hallmarks. It's nothing to be proud of. These abysmal attitudes toward education, initially learned in Chinese classrooms, and sustained by a culture based on dishonesty, certainly carry over to China's overall international reputation (which worsens on a daily basis).
If China continues on its present path, and continues to disregard internationally-accepted ethical standards, we will witness the greatest economic and cultural meltdown in world history. |
Ah, Worldly, master of the hyperbole, are we? Are you totally ignorant, my good man? Have you not realized that the Chinese will apply 90% of your western rules (ethics, your morality, whatever) in order to achieve their objectives. You've taken one too many courses on Ethics in the American Corporation. 1.3 billion Chinese will use you like a good French Safe, and when they're done with you... |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Even in a western-based education - if it were based in a country where regulations were as laxly imposed as they are in China - and corruption was so openly present - then many of the failings we experiences within Chinese education I'm sure would also occur within that western one!!!!!
These types of problems - making a buck at any cost - don�t stem from any specific cultural/social source - but more from a common human "weakness" called greed.
After all just look at western educational organizations, such as EF, who have entered the China market � they seem to play the �English teaching rip-off game� just as good as any of their Chinese competitors!!!!!!
By the way I don't believe greed in itself is a bad thing - after all wanting more is a catalyst for progess. But unregulated economic greed - well its a situation like this that seems to be shaping the China EFL industry  |
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malu
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Sunny Java
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
Even in a western-based education - if it were based in a country where regulations were as laxly imposed as they are in China - and corruption was so openly present - then many of the failings we experiences within Chinese education I'm sure would also occur within that western one!!!!!
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This is very true. However, where there are international examinations that are independently invigilated and marked outside the country there is a safety net. And 'outsourcing' educational ethics doesn't have to last forever - Singapore used to use the British examinations system but then adapted its own curriculum, which is now itself exported to other Asian countries. If you want to see how to run a school in Asia go to Singapore or Malaysia. |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: Re: My school�s ethics � or lack of them. |
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| jeffinflorida wrote: |
Ok now what�s your take on this� The school asked me to pass at least 80% of the students and fail less than 20%.
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I have found at my school if I fail a student, they always have the opportunity to attempt the test again. If they fail the second time around the school will just bump up their marks. I have a feeling a lot of schools in China would follow this practice. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| But, the school wants me to pass 80% and I know this isn�t going to happen. So let�s assume that 50% fail. What do I do? |
I say do what makes you feel best as a teacher. If you want to acquiesce to the school's "policies", then do so and don't look back. If you want to give these guys and gals a test that covers what you taught (and then end up failing many of them), then do so. There are tricks to the trade you know. You can give the short answer questions as extra credit. If they do well, great! If they don't but can manage to get through the T/F and multiple choice, pretty good I say. You can grade on a curve. If your highest student only managed a 93%, then adjust everyone else's test accordingly. Make sure you do a thorough review of EVERYTHING that's going to be on the test. If you've covered and reviewed and re-reviewed everything, then you should not feel worried or concerned about your role as the teacher. I'm telling my 3rd grade primaries this year that I can't hold their hands forever and I can't spoonfeed them everything (not the exact terminology, but I won't dumb it down for you guys!). It's time for them to start using their worksheets and notebooks and textbooks to help them master the topic(s) we're studying. Good luck! |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| I say do what makes you feel best as a teacher. |
It's not just about being a teacher - but about being a person!!!!!!!
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| If you've covered and reviewed and re-reviewed everything, then you should not feel worried or concerned about your role as the teacher. |
But when you're asked to doctor your pass rates - all in the good name of making your school more money - then you may want to question your status as a person  |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I have no issues with passing those that try and those that make an attempt...
The issues are with those that do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - don't do the assignments, bring books, answer questions, take notes,talk to their buddies, try to sleep or play QQ on thier phone.
These students don't stand any chance of passing, unless they cheat or try to bribe me...
The students that participate will pass regardless of their test scores - because they try...
It's those that do nothing who will get an F or zero... |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: Um |
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| Play the game and pass them as it really doesn't matter as to get a decent job here in China you will find that the companies test including the goverment as they know what is happening in the schools and universities here. The other thing is that only 30% of college and university graduates will end up with a decent job anyway. Let them live in their dream would a little longer; the real world will sort them out. |
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johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:53 am Post subject: none |
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| Then why not make 'continuous assessment' part of the overall result? |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Continuous assessment (the idea of supporting constant learning) is a concept that goes hand in hand with learning English as a means of communication - after all most normal folk never learn to speak a foreign language through crazed pre-exam midnight cram sessions!!!!!
However in a system that is so dominated by the exam - students always putting off real studying until the pre-exam cram period - and parents and school bodies focusing on success through exam result - then applying the continuous assessment system in itself can become a real task!!! |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:51 am Post subject: Re: none |
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| johnchina wrote: |
| Then why not make 'continuous assessment' part of the overall result? |
Some of those oh-so-evil private language schools actually do this for all courses 
Y'know... I don't want this to sound like a personal attack on any individual, but how anyone can call themself a teacher and then decide to meddle with their tests, pass more/fewer students to fulfill their own/their school's own criteria, decide to automatically fail students on participation if that isn't part of the course marking protocol... I dunno.
I don't understand how a teacher could not only go along with unfair/unethical practices, but also advise others to do the same thing "because it's China"... really. And you wonder why so many unscrupulous educational establishments can exist here, and why in some places the standard of education or the standard of graduating students isn't too impressive. Well, guys, you're hardly helping with an attitude like that. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Some of those oh-so-evil private language schools actually do this for all courses |
and I suppose this oh-so-fine mill also dumps or relegates students who don't meet the minimum continuous standards  What speaks louder in the Chinese mill or the day school (public or private) - a students fee money or general educational standard
By the way sonnet the discussion here is directed towards continuous assessment with regard to gaining a "recognised" with regard to academic progession qualification - I know certain mills in cooperation with universities (the official examination body) prime non-university enrolled students for taking English degrees or English qualifying related tests - is EF also involved in this game 
Last edited by vikuk on Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
and I suppose this oh-so-fine mill also dumps or relegates students who don't meet the minimum continuous standards |
Actually, we do. Such students have to either drop down a level, or take remedial study & be re-assessed before we will let them continue to the next level. For-profit education can have standards & ethics, y'know.
| Quote: |
| By the way sonnet the discussion here is directed towards continuous assessment with regard to gaining an academic qualification - I know certain mills in cooperation with universities (the official examinatory body) prime non-university enrolled students for taking English degrees - is EF also involved in this game |
Yes, EF runs these Academic Partnerships in some larger cities. I know they definitely work with SNU, and there are others, but I don't have the names to hand - it's a different side of the company & not terribly relevant to me at present. Sorry to disappoint. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, we do. Such students have to either drop down a level, or take remedial study & be re-assessed before we will let them continue to the next level. For-profit education can have standards & ethics, y'know. |
are you the Ft the one decides this process |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, it's a company policy, and they provide schools with the guidelines & ability descriptors for each level.
If a teacher judges that a student isn't meeting a suitable mimimum continuous standard, then they meet with the DoS, look at the student's work and progress, and make the decision.
So, to answer your question in one word, yes. Although there's always a second opinion & external standards to refer to. |
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