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clark.w.griswald

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:39 am Post subject:

Teatime of Soul wrote:

So basically, you were screwed over by a recruiter.

Wink

Yeah it� funny isn�t how these guys jump in with absolutely no information and suggest it must be a scam just because it has something to do with a �recruiter�.

Just look how many accusations were made that turned out to be incorrect and you get an idea as to how full of misinformation these types of posts really are, and why I have a problem with them. Stick to the facts and you will prove your point much more easily.

beautification wrote:

Even if this agency is said to be good, do your research on the school before accepting a job.

arioch36 wrote:

Many ways to contact schools directly

Hmmm. Wouldn�t it be great if a group of teachers put together a website that you could look to for both of these things in one place. A list of schools that you can contact directly. And a list of comments from previous teachers etc so that you could research positions BEFORE even contacting those schools. Wink

I haven�t vouched for this particular company as I don�t know of them. Of note is the fact that the only person who has posted so far with personal experience with them has a positive view and from his other posts we know AussieGuy to be an intelligent and reasonable individual which gives credence to his post in my eyes. It will be good to see if anyone else has personal experience with them.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now off topic but in relation to questions raised in this thread:

Now to GWW, arioch36 and any others that think or claim that I am a recruiter please read the following and I really hope that you will reply so that I can understand your thinking on this. Let�s get this sorted out so that we can move past it and stop polluting threads with this misinformation which is quite frankly boring but needs to be corrected.

As I have stated before and will again I am not a recruiter nor have I ever been a recruiter nor do I get any money from any recruitment company or school for the employment of teachers. If you are going to claim otherwise then please do the honorable thing and bring some proof to the table � proof that you have never brought here because it does not exist. Have a think about that for a moment!

As to why you think I am a recruiter well from what I gather it is based upon two assumptions:

a. I concentrate on the positive aspects of living and working in China in my posts here;

b. I am involved with a site that contains a list of schools and recruiters and positive and negative comments about them

It is true that I do concentrate on the positive but that is because there are already enough people here complaining about the negatives. I do not unfairly portray life here in an overtly positive light, I merely point out the positives as I have experienced them myself. I understand that when you are miserable it does not help you personally to hear the positives as it makes you personally feel even worse, but my concern is ensuring that new users get both sides of the story. Let�s face it. If things were as bad as some of you like to try to portray then there would be no foreign teachers here in China and the fact that you yourselves remain here seems to prove my point.

I am not a follower, and I am not afraid to state a point of view that I know others won�t agree with if I believe that point of view to be correct. The thing that stands out to me is that you guys who complain about my involvement outside of Daves also never prove what I post here to be incorrect � you just throw around a lot of suppositions as to why I hold my points of view. The fact that you make unfounded accusations about me, that I know to be incorrect and you know that you have no proof of, suggests to me that you can�t argue your points legitimately which raises the question as to whether your points really are legitimate! So I think that your motives are more at question than mine.

My involvement with that site and the suggestion that this makes me a recruiter has me confused for a number of reasons:

1. If I were a recruiter why would I be involved with a site that lists the direct contact details of just about every other recruiter in China? And why would I be involved with a site that lists the direct contact details of thousands of schools in China? A site that also currently has banners directing users to more than one recruitment service in China and that has more than one recruitment service listed on it�s recommended list. I have to think that this would be bad for business for a recruiter.

2. Logically I would think that if I were a recruiter then I would have to be one of the ones with banners on that site and/or on the recommended list and this should help to narrow things down for the skeptics. Do some research on those companies and see if you get a match. You won�t as none exists.

3. If I were a recruiter then I would assume that the site that I am involved with would have some sort of special promotion of my services or in the very least some way for users to contact us for our services. Such a thing does not exist on that site and there is no promotion of a single service over another. In fact the opposite situation exists with a very public declaration on that site that we do not help with actual placements ourselves. Kind of strange for a recruiter to turn away potential business like that wouldn't you think!

4. If I were a recruiter then there would be foreign teachers in China who had been contacted and placed by me. Where are those teachers? GWW, beautification, or arioch36 have you ever received any correspondence from that site trying to offer you recruitment services?

I really want the truth to come out here as I am sick of threads being poisoned with this nonsense.

The fact is that I became involved with that site many years ago. A site that was set up in response to what we saw as a need � a resource that lists schools, recruiters, and the comments made about them. I realize that some don�t like the idea that it has become a user pays site (it was free for years) but someone has to pay and we choose not to let schools and recruiters cover these costs. We don�t apologize for this as we think that this is a good thing.

So for the skeptics here who continue to raise these suspicions about my motives please be responsible and discuss the facts that you have at hand to support your claims. You know yourself if you have proof or not, and if you don�t then please show the respect of at least being honest about things.

vikuk

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:47 am Post subject:

Teatime in the best of comical styles wrote - "So basically, you were screwed over by a recruiter." But newbies beware - this is far from the average job that this recruiter has provided (15,000/month position). So before you guys start to get all excited - just do a search and find out how much service is provided with some of the more usual - 4000-6000 type jobs If Aussies experience was taken as a typical recruiter tale - then that really would be a comedy!!!!

arioch36

Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Teatime of Soul wrote:
So basically, you were screwed over by a recruiter.

Clark
Yeah it� funny isn�t how these guys jump in with absolutely no information and suggest it must be a scam just because it has something to do with a �recruiter�.

Yeah, ain't it strange how a large percentage of teachers in China who have been here a while, and have no financial relationships to rewcruiting think way? I wonder why? Makes you think Shocked

vikuk

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject:

The question a lot of FT's should be asking after reading this thread is - why am I still on a 5,000/month salary when Aussie is on 15,000. I can also understand some of Aussies postal tantrums - after all looks like a look of cheaper alternatives out there if his employers ever decide not to renew his contract!!!!

arioch36

Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject:

_________________

Quote:

List of Schools in Taiwan
List of Schools in China

Quote:

Clark
I realize that some don�t like the idea that it has become a user pays site (it was free for years) but someone has to pay and we choose not to let schools and recruiters cover these costs. We don�t apologize for this as we think that this is a good thing.

Quote:

As I have stated before and will again I am not a recruiter nor have I ever been a recruiter nor do I get any money from any recruitment company or school for the employment of teachers.

"I am not a crook"

Clark has a very interesting narrow definition of recruiter. Note he says he doesn't get money from any school or comany. reading lines Clark does get money, and the reason Clark has his advertisement on every single post he makes; do any believe it is because of his altruism? Why can't he be honest? Every post he makes is to advertise, advertise to make money. No I agree with was it Whiner? Distasteful? Please look at my ad, from which I derive income...but I post here only for altruistic reasons. Rolling Eyes

My posting my ad so I can make money does not effect my sentiments Wink

Don't know if Dave allows it, or you have to pay. Not relevant really. But you could ask the same question. Why does Dave allow this "competition"

Back to the recruiting question

I did not have sex. what is sex? What is the meaning of is? (Wow who said such deep thoughts and why?)I have not studied his site. But let's see, if the school pays him, he is a recruiter, but if the teacher pays him ... it is ??? Not recruiting? Well if it smells like a duck and quacks like a duck. Let Clark call it Prospective client services.

Quote:

Clark
We don�t apologize for this as we think that this is a good thing

Nothing wrong with that. I have bought used cars in my lifetime. It is a valuable service. But I also arm myself with the knowledge that they have a slanted view.

Clark, every post you post here has your ad from which you derive income based on getting people interested in coming here to teach. And the lower the conditions they are persuaded to accept as being acceptable, the more likely they are to use your services. And you have the type of slant that I have seen in almost all the laowai who have turned their hand at recruiting to make money. But you, of course, are not a recruiter, you are something else Rolling Eyes

clark.w.griswald

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:02 am Post subject:

vikuk wrote:

The question a lot of FT's should be asking after reading this thread is - why am I still on a 5,000/month salary when Aussie is on 15,000.

That is actually a good question vikuk but I see it a bit differently than you do perhaps.

As I mentioned before I doubt that schools that currently pay RMB5,000 will suddenly start to pay more. I don't believe that this is necessarily because they are cheap but just because that amount is within the range that the government sets for foreign experts, it is an amount that they likely consider to be more than reasonable, and it is an amount that they can get good teachers for. They may be able to get 'better' teachers for more money but then maybe not.

I do agree with you that hopefully teachers will look at Aussie's post and then be enthused enough to look further afield and see if they can find positions that pay wages more inline with what they personally want.

I believe that a lot of the problems with schools and general negativity we see here is due to foreign teacher 'regret' and perhaps them thinking that the other side of the fence is much greener. It is important that whoever the person is, wherever they are teaching, and whatever they are earning - that they are content with their lot. Being content will help to deal with those issues that will inevitably arrive.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Off topic reply to that boring recruiter suggestion:

Arioch36 I notice that you back right away from providing any sort of proof to support your suggestion that I am a recruiter. I have seen people like you before and you always back down when push comes to shove and you realize that you are being called on your dishonesty. Shame on you for pushing an agenda on this forum that is not an honest one and that is instead driven by your personal issues with my posts here.

Now that this matter has been put to rest I suggest that you get over your personal differences with me and concentrate on the content of my posts if you want to discuss things with me. I would be happy if we could avoid polluting any more threads with this nonsense.

Jealousy is a curse - it is an indication of weakness.

Just something to think about Aricoh36.

vikuk

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:38 am Post subject:

Quote:

I do agree with you that hopefully teachers will look at Aussie's post and then be enthused enough to look further afield and see if they can find positions that pay wages more inline with what they personally want

Clark on the subject of "further afield" - since your website - buxiban advertises jobs - and you clam to be in this game to help the average Joe FT - why not list those jobs on a wage level basis giving maximum advertising coverage to those jobs that were in the 10,000 and plus category!!!!

Have you any good reasons for not doing this - I know a move like this would silence a lot of your critics Idea

arioch36

Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:30 am Post subject:

Clark

Quote:

Arioch36 I notice that you back right away from providing any sort of proof to support your suggestion that I am a recruiter. I have seen people like you before and you always back down when push comes to shove and you realize that you are being called on your dishonesty. Shame on you for pushing an agenda on this forum that is not an honest one and that is instead driven by your personal issues with my posts here

.

Dishonesty?
I said it pretty straight forward, no problem I'll repeat. You advertise for a site that makes money, that makes you money, by getting laowai interested in coming to China for a job.

Interesting how when a foreign teacher calls a school or person dishonest (ie Mr. Dou, others) you are quick to insist on proof to your liking, but know you accuse me of being dishonest with no specifics. For instance? What is the example of my dishonesty

Now, you choose to say this is not recruiting. So I will wait for what you call it. And as ethical as you always claim to be, you continue to suggest it is perfectly okay to come here and teach on a Z visa or L-visa.

Is your business evil? I'll repeat again, I don't think so. But I'll repeAT AGAIN, A USED CAR SALESMAN (OR NEW CAR SALESMAN) OFFERS A VALUABLE SERVICE, BUT IN DEALING WITH THEM I'll be aware that their business vestment gives them a very different angle then the buyer

Dave also gets a lot of money by being in the recruiting game. But Dave doesn't make jufgement opinions here.

Clark

Code:

I have seen people like you before

Quote:

you are being called on your dishonesty.

Quote:

Shame on you for pushing an agenda on this forum that is not an honest one

And what dishonest agenda might this be?

Please give me the example of my dishonesty? By continuing to advocate that teachers come here come on a z-visa?

Now I have never said you were dishonest. My words are that people who start getting involved in making money by getting teachers to come to China (you say it is not recruitment, but you haven't put another label)
such laowai have, in my experience, have a definite shift in what they say, as opposed to the laowai who are here as teachers.

For stating this opinion I am dishonest?

And what am I backing down from???

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