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Native vs non-native speaker teachers
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Big_Cannon



Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kymro wrote:
Kootvela wrote:
To put my 2 cents in, here is a copy of a reply from an employment agency to my inquiry about possible sumemr job positions. I did email them with the information that I have two degrees in English philology and experience but I am not a native speaker.

"The unfortunate reality of the ESL market is that the governments of most countries require that individuals applying for teaching visas are citizens of English speaking countries. These are defined as countries where English is the first language and they are limited to the following: Canada, America, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and the UK . This has absolutely NOTHING to do with your proficiency in the English language but is simply the government regulation.

There may be some opportunities for you in China . Unfortunately, at this time (company name) does not work with any schools there who are open to this and we suggest you apply directly to the schools."

Even China does not need my degree... Sad


If you're interested, I know a number of Poles who have found work as English teachers in China.

For some Chinese schools, the fact that you are not a native speaker of English is of less importance than the fact that, as someone of Caucasian appearance, you look like one.

Try to get over the native/non-native argument. If Lithuanian was a widely used and taught language, Lithuanian teachers would be in demand worldwide, and Lithuanian natives would be given preference over Belarussians and Latvians for employment, even if they happened to have a good knowledge of Lithuanian. That's just how things are.

If you are a native speaker of English who happens to want to teach his native language abroad you are just luckier than other nationalities.


So, Kymro, if I'm not mistaken, you are white, a college dropout but a holder of a UK passport... Are these the qualifications that gave you a teaching job in a private school in Poland? And if so, the same ones that could get you a job anywhere else?
And what your fellow non-native speaker teachers have to say about that?

And for this "Lithuanian language analogy"...Is this the best excuse you've got to explain how you are getting better paid than a Lithuanian born, English teacher with two Masters?

Kymro wrote:
"If you are a native speaker of English who happens to want to teach his native language abroad you are just luckier than other nationalities"-

This is the reason why Lojek-Magdziarz wrote the article: To expose this lower class English.
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simon_porter00



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Cannon wrote:


This is the reason why Lojek-Magdziarz wrote the article: To expose this lower class English.


We Brits don't enjoy being told what to do, nor enjoy our frailties (if you call this language which is the subject of the article a frailty - i certainly don't) being pointed out by foriegners. It comes from being an island nation. Suggest things to us for improvement and we'll be unfailingly polite and probably do it. Tell us - and you have a problem.

If you can communicate in English, job done. If English changes, as it does, over the years, so be it. New vocabulary will always be developed and the best thing that's happened is that the respected dictionaries expand every year to include new words.

It is somewhat of a cheek, however, to slate our language without looking at your own. Polish has borrowed from the English, French, German, Italian and Czech languages over its 1000 year existance. Polish words continue to borrow from languages at the cost of bastardising its own. In offices today you'll hear:
forwardować (to forward), printnij to (from printować), bookować (to book/reserve), klikać (to click), fajle (files), czardżować (to charge), bilować (to bill). These words all have proper Polish verb alternatives.

Hang on, hang on - i can hear the excuses now. This is normal, this is how the language develops. Bo**ocks. No-one over the age of 40 (probably) would have the faintest idea what office staff are talking about nowadays.
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YakTamer



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 86
Location: Warszawa, Polska

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read some of her earlier articles, and she seems to be nurturing some kind of persecution complex about being Polish in the sceptred isle, as well as betraying an element of wounded self-hatred that comes across as juvenile and neurotic (like the tone of her articles), as if she wanted to flagellate herself in public for some reason.

In her article 'Eastern Promises' (http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/aleksandra_lojekmagdziarz/2007/12/eastern_promises.html), she cites a perception that Polish girls are seen as having yellow teeth, which is bizarre. If there is a perception about Polish girls amongst the UK natives, it certainly isn't as yellow-toothed mingers but rather the opposite. Her research for this assertion appears to have consisted of picking up one of those free newspapers on the tube.

She then goes on to say the following:
"Or there is the other reaction: yes, they are nice and hard-working, but we will not invite them to tea because their job is dirty. But we can patronise them from time to time and be grateful that the economy has been boosted. And deconstruct them in the media as if they were just cute creatures able to work like robots, take benefits, and get drunk. There is no deeper approach in the public realm.." (my emphasis)

So that's it then. Apparently the only approach taken is what she's told us above and no other commentary about the Polish in Britain, in any part of the media, goes beyond this. Note the juvenile and neurotic tone. Mommy must have sent her up to bed early for being naughty.

'Instrumentalisation' - the word she uses as an example of her superior vocab, is not a word in common currency, at least outside the realms of sociology departments. It is not present in either the Chambers dictionary or the Cambridge (Advanced) dictionary, or in the OED Concise. Try typing it in a Word document and see what your spell checker does (try the -zation version also, in case you have US English). Someone might perhaps mistakenly use it in a music review when what they actually mean is instrumentation.
Perhaps with her instrumentalizacja she has actually made the same mistake as some of my students, who often say localisation when they mean location (lokalizacja). Maybe she picked it up from French, where it appears to be more popular.

She also has the quote (from the earlier article): Some urbanites ask: "Well, golly, you're a university professor. Are you sure you want to clean my house?"

This sounds like something she just plucked out of thin air. The sentence is deliberately ambiguous - perhaps *she* is the person that was asked this question, as many readers will assume, but a glimpse at her profile gives us nothing to indicate she is a professor of anything. Perhaps one of her friends is the professor who went to the clean the house? In which case, might I suggest that her friend writes the next article?
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many insults have resulted in many postings being deleted and the thread being locked.

If you had one or more postings deleted, please assume that you have been warned not to repeat such behavior in the future.

If you do, you will be sanctioned. Sanctions can include banning.

Too much of this kind of behavior is presenting itself on the the Poland forum with the result that the Mod Team will be giving it increased attention.

If you enjoy insulting people, you are most definitely on the wrong board. You would be well advised to change your behavior if you wish to retain your membership here
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