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Dr_Zoidberg
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: Not posting on Forumosa.
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Y'know even just a few weeks ago I would never have advocated this, but.....FARK the betelnut-chewing-retards (aka: Taiwanese)!
I've been in Taiwan 3 years, and have always done the right thing by the Taiwanese. Each and every time they looked for a way to screw me over. They make it impossible for you to do the right thing, and then whinge about it when you don't.
The most recent example was when I told my employer that I had been offered a job in a city (I am currently in a small town out in the middle of nowhere). I had been with this employer for over 2 years, we had a great working relationship, there were never any problems and I always did everything he asked of me.
I gave him the 30 days notice and even offered to try to negotiate something with my new employer if he still needed more time to find a replacement. His response was to cancel my ARC immediately. Now I have to do a visa run at inflated prices because of the proximity to CNY.
Bottom line: Doing the right thing only gives them the opportunity to look for a way to screw you.
If you want to quit your job, just do it. Collect your pay on pay day and walk away. After 3 years of having these people trying to screw me over every which way, I can no longer advocate any other course of action.
Last edited by Dr_Zoidberg on Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rupert shellgame
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| So when you quit, they can either a) play hardball and cancel your ARC, in which case you'll have to do a visa run or b) not play hardball, and do what? |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, and another question: If your visa is cancelled, how many days do you have to leave before they fine you? Surely, they dont expect you to leave the very next day (God, if they do, I'm booking the next flight outta here right now). |
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Dr_Zoidberg
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: Not posting on Forumosa.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
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You have 14 days to clear out.
Imagine the laoban's shock when I told him I would be leaving for HK immediately. The c*nt expected I would work right up till the 14th day (Feb 6th) and then scramble to find a flight.  |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr_Zoidberg wrote: |
You have 14 days to clear out.
Imagine the laoban's shock when I told him I would be leaving for HK immediately. The c*nt expected I would work right up till the 14th day (Feb 6th) and then scramble to find a flight. |
That sucks, but I am glad you are not working up to the last day; I think any way you can provide retribution is acceptable in your case. You do all of us ESL teachers a favor that way, because the schools will be more careful about trying to cheat us in the future. You should also post your school's name to any and every blacklist you can find... including ones not limited in scope to Taiwan. Good luck. |
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BigWally
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Let me start by saying sorry Dr. Z. It's unfortunate that you got the short end of the stick on this one, but the way that some of these money grubbing laobans act, its not really surprising to me that you got screwed around in the way that you did.
I'm going through a similar situation right now trying to get something through customs. Rather than lie about what was in the box, I was honest and forthright about what was in it (some medicine), and now I have been fighting with the FDA, customs, FEDEX and the gov't for about 2 weeks to get my package released. I think you're better off just lying all the time, even if the other person knows you're lying. They won't call you on it to avoid the argument, and it'll just work out better for everyone.
| pest2 wrote: |
That sucks, but I am glad you are not working up to the last day; I think any way you can provide retribution is acceptable in your case. |
I think refusing to work the final 14 days is fine, but exceeding this with further "retribution" is unnecessary, and unwarranted.
| pest2 wrote: |
| You do all of us ESL teachers a favor that way, because the schools will be more careful about trying to cheat us in the future. |
One person refusing to fulfill 2 weeks of teaching, doesn't do anything but inconvenience Dr.Z's former employer until they can find a sub (a few days tops), and eventually a replacement (a few weeks maybe). Being rude, getting angry, trying to exact some form of revenge does nothing here because mostly the laoban's don't care.
They know there is a endless supply of fresh faces coming to Taiwan who are going to fill the jobs that the more experienced teachers don't want. I recently read a report about how Taiwan ranks number 3 in the world when it comes to corruption in the work place. If there is corruption amongst the Taiwanese, don't think that they'd even hesitate for a second to screw a foreigner.
| pest2 wrote: |
| You should also post your school's name to any and every blacklist you can find... including ones not limited in scope to Taiwan. Good luck. |
I'm not sure what this would do, as there aren't really many "blacklists" per say, other than the one that lives in urban legend that teachers can be placed on. Also, there are so many bushibans in Taiwan, it would be a waste of time to post derogatory information about a bushiban in Taiwan anywhere else but Taiwanese message boards. |
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Dr_Zoidberg
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: Not posting on Forumosa.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| BigWally wrote: |
| Let me start by saying sorry Dr. Z. It's unfortunate that you got the short end of the stick on this one, but the way that some of these money grubbing laobans act, its not really surprising to me that you got screwed around in the way that you did. |
In retrospect it doesn't surprise me either. I suppose when the last 26 months went so well I got suckered into thinking this employer wasn't like the others.
| BigWally wrote: |
| I think you're better off just lying all the time, even if the other person knows you're lying. They won't call you on it to avoid the argument, and it'll just work out better for everyone. |
Lying seems to be a way of life here, a testament to Taiwanese retardedness.
| BigWally wrote: |
| I think refusing to work the final 14 days is fine, but exceeding this with further "retribution" is unnecessary, and unwarranted. |
For the record, my walking away so quickly had nothing to do with retribution. I simply did what was required of me by law (ie: leave Taiwan) and booked the flight that was most convenient for me. Also, once my ARC was cancelled any further work would have been illegal.
| BigWally wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
| You should also post your school's name to any and every blacklist you can find... including ones not limited in scope to Taiwan. Good luck. |
I'm not sure what this would do, as there aren't really many "blacklists" per say, other than the one that lives in urban legend that teachers can be placed on. Also, there are so many bushibans in Taiwan, it would be a waste of time to post derogatory information about a bushiban in Taiwan anywhere else but Taiwanese message boards. |
Once I have collected what pay I have coming to me I will certainly post a detailed account of what has transpired. I believe everyone who gets screwed by their laoban should do so, even if for no other reason than to give one's fellow expats a heads-up. |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Dr_Zoidberg wrote: |
Once I have collected what pay I have coming to me I will certainly post a detailed account of what has transpired. I believe everyone who gets screwed by their laoban should do so, even if for no other reason than to give one's fellow expats a heads-up. |
Yes, that's the kind of retribution I'm talking about... good for us to know so we dont get suckered into going there, justice in case they have to spend more time and resources finding employees who dont get scared away and perhaps they close, eventually. Market competition: the fittest survive. The one that survives should not cheat its teachers else those teachers all run away. Sadly, some people are sorta like doormats who have an unusual high tolerance for being treated like slaves instead of humans . To those people: we deserve better. Make the standard higher and dont ruin it for all the rest of us. |
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BigWally
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Z, don't get me wrong, I don't think what you are doing is excessive retribution at all, in fact, good for you, and good luck in the future. I was referring to pest2's comment about "...anything you can do to provide retribution...", and just pointing out that going above and beyond what is warranted is just spiteful. I do look forward to reading your "review" of the school. 
In response to pest2's new post:
Alas, the doormat personality is more prevalent, in my opinion, due to the fairly low requirements for teaching over here. Anyone with a BA in pretty much any field is eligible to become an expert on "teaching" English.
There are some of us here who truly love teaching, learning, and the joy of being around children all day. Others are here because back home they'd be making $10/hr (or less) flipping burgers or selling crap over the phone.
As long as the requirements for the job market stay the same, the employers are going to continue to treat the employees the same. There is no reason for them to change. We get paid like gods according to some Taiwanese standards, but some people don't really EARN that kind of money.
Sadly, it seems the only way to make it in the English business here, is to fly under the radar at all times. There is an old saying "the nail that sticks up will be hammered down", and nowhere is that more true than here. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| 1) people just dont care about learning English as much because English language isnt as heavily integrated into their society;not a bad thing at all for them but bad for me |
Do you really live in Taiwan? Maybe it is different outside of Taipei but in Taipei I think that for most people English is important. The economy is heavily based on international trade and international markets. |
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773
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| BigWally wrote: |
| Not likely, unless she is a Taiwanese citizen, and then you need to be married for 7 years or something like that. My understanding is married or not, if you're out of a job, you need to go the visitors visa route individually. |
Actually, this is not the case. I know two American couples in Taiwan where the husband is employed with an ARC and they are under their husband's ARCs and not technically working (they do private tuition at home, illegally).
Also, I quit my job during my first year in Taiwan and went under my husband's ARC (he was teaching at a university) until I found another ARC job. So, it's perfectly legal to do that. You just need proof of marriage translated into Chinese to do this. |
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773
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| rupert shellgame wrote: |
I just want to be sure, what is the verdict here?
Is it possible to change jobs without leaving the country and starting over with the ARC process? I was told by an experienced player here that unless your job is absolutely pissed at you, they will play ball and allow you to transfer sponsorship of the ARC. After all, they don't want you saying nasty things about them in forums like this, since that would make it real hard for them to dupe the next foreigner into falling into the same trap. |
Yes, it is possible to do so. Like I mentioned before, when I quit my job in my first year, my husband had too at the same time (we were at a terrible school) and he went to work for a university and we never had to leave the country. The school owner was an awful, hateful man, and we told him that if he wanted to cause trouble with us leaving and getting new jobs, it was no problem...we would post the truth on the internet about him and his school on sites like this one. Well, he was deeply worried about this and didn't raise a fuss...he even gave us our bonuses pro-rated (after just half a year of working there)!
My husband started the transfer papers at that point and we never had to leave the country. I went under my husband's ARC until I found a school I liked / trusted enough to get an ARC through. It all worked out fine.
To help ease the "transition," we told our original employer that we would help him out with a few hours here and there until he found a new teacher, and we agreed on something like 6 hours a week. That also helped to pacify things. |
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BigWally
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| "Maybe it is different outside of Taipei..." |
Understatement of the century. |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 1) people just dont care about learning English as much because English language isnt as heavily integrated into their society;not a bad thing at all for them but bad for me |
Do you really live in Taiwan? Maybe it is different outside of Taipei but in Taipei I think that for most people English is important. The economy is heavily based on international trade and international markets. |
Yeah, live in TW. It seems important as compared to, say, the importance of knowing spanish in the USA. But compared to how much English is integrated into Korean culture or even Thai, HK, Singaporean cultures, it seems pretty minimal from what I've seen. For example, you never see bus schedules, time tables, bills, phone cards, and other things written in both Chinese and English, but those things exist in both Korean and English in Korea. Also, in Korea, they just like to throw alot of english words into their own formal language... "the max space-ee ta bang (tea room)" for example, spelled out phoenetically in Korean ... English words are very very commonly spelled out in Korean, pheonetically, and a new Korean- English word (one for which the object or idea in question didnt already thereby exist in Korean language) exists in Korean that is the same in English... In Taiwan, according to my wife who is a native Chinese speaker, they always make a new, different-sounding word in Mandarin when this situation occurs. However, in Shanghai, China (where we lived for a year), they tend to just use the English word and English words are written all over the place (but maybe that just applies to Beijing and Shanghai because they're major international centers)... U can see how English would be more important in HK because of the British occupation for so long and the same with Singapore... I dont know TW that well, but it seems very traditional...even though the people here are very kind and open to foreigners and not suspicious of foreign ideas, they tend to stick with the traditional ways, from what I've seen... including when it comes to language...
Therefore, for that reason, as well as the fact that salaries relative to wages are low here, the demand for English is low....
Too bad though.. its so fun here.. oh well...
Last edited by pest2 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| 773 wrote: |
| BigWally wrote: |
| Not likely, unless she is a Taiwanese citizen, and then you need to be married for 7 years or something like that. My understanding is married or not, if you're out of a job, you need to go the visitors visa route individually. |
Actually, this is not the case. I know two American couples in Taiwan where the husband is employed with an ARC and they are under their husband's ARCs and not technically working (they do private tuition at home, illegally).
Also, I quit my job during my first year in Taiwan and went under my husband's ARC (he was teaching at a university) until I found another ARC job. So, it's perfectly legal to do that. You just need proof of marriage translated into Chinese to do this. |
Thanks 773! That is very good news. I happened to have brought our marriage certificate here to TW and I can get someone to translate it... just need to head to the good 'ole immi office sometime in the next month (asap)... I'll post back to this thread to let yaw'l know what happened. |
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