Job Discussion Forums

[jfurgers]

There's a lot of stupid people in the world Dixie. I've had a few students who actually like Bin Laden. That shows that they have NO UNDERSTANDING of him. When I hear things like that I tell them that HE DOESN'T like them. He would spit on the picture of the virgin Mary and burn it in a second if he could.

I try to make them understand that they hate Mexico also and view them as infidels who need to be converted or die. The blacks in the States know what it's like to be pointed out by another group and hated. The Jews know what it's like to be hated but it seems like a lot of the Mexicans have never been targeted by deep hatred. At least not the ones who live in Mexico and don't have to work in the States.

I've met some Mexicans in DF who told me they hate the indians. They said, they have no culture, they're poor and ignorant. I hear a lot of this from some of my students also. Also, every Mexican student I've ever had HATES everyone from DF.
It's very rare for me to have students from DF in my classes so we're able to have discussions about DF, racism, PC, and history. I ask them why they don't like their fellow countrymen and they tell me it's because they are selfish, greedy, and don't understand family. I think it may be because all or a lot of the wealth in Mexico seems to be in DF. Not sure.

Has anyone here living in Mexico but not DF ever experienced this??

[MO39]

[Guy Courchesne]

[jfurgers]

Most of my students are from small towns scattered throughout Mexico. The ones who come from places close to the border are the main ones who complain about DF. A FEW from Monterrey say bad things. Guanajuato is another place some students come from and most of them seem to dislike DF as well. Probably because they are all in the States not by choice but because they have to be.

I personally prefer DF because I like big cities and most of the EFL jobs there seem to pay more. A couple of years ago I had a student from Monterrey who really disliked DF. She told me it was because they think they're better than everyone else.

Then she told me that they have the best university in all of Mexico in Monterrey. Kind of like how some from New York view people who live in the south.

[debmport]

'We' as in 'the class'.

[MELEE]

[jfurgers]

Good points Melee. I have a student in one of my morning classes whose from DF and another student from Monterrey. I was talking with them one day about my experience with the Day of the Dead and how I saw two guys drinking and crying over a grave of a friend.

The lady from Monterrey said people don't get drunk and disrespectful like that in Monterrey during the Day of the Dead. This got the other student from DF upset and they almost got into an argument with each other.

I have to be careful with that class because of the lady from DF. Very rare to have someone from the big city. My wife and her two brothers and sister always make fun of Mexicans from the north because they sound like they're singing when they speak. You have to laugh sometimes when you stop and listen to people and how they think their little corner of the world is the best at everything.

[GueroPaz]

My friend Ant�nio, a Tzotzil ind�gena, borrowed Ralph Ellison's joke about Blacks in America and twisted it for Mexico. He was quoted in La Jornada that "Ind�genas are the cause of blindness. When they walk into a tienda, the entire staff does not see them."

[mapache]

Mexico is not the US or Canada. Get over it.

A boy in my private school class wore a swastika shirt. I was upset because my dad was wounded fighting the Nazi's in WWII. The coordinator said to get over it. I did.

A private student who is the director of an international organizations with many international visitors from all over the world simply ignored me when I told him his "Negritos" vending machine would offend Black visitors.

We really have to get over it and accept Mexico as what it is - no offense intended.

[Linda T.]

I agree completely, Mapache, that where no offense is intended, none should be taken.

For myself, however, from the point-of-view of an EFL/ESL teacher, I feel that it is my obligation to caution my students about those situations where offense is bound to be taken (whether intended or not).

Seems to me that it's just a matter of showing the students that the same language may say something different in different situations. Not only in terms of what the listener thinks is being experssed about him or her, but also in terms of what the listener will automatically assume to be true about the speaker.

I suppose if English is never going to be used by the student outside of the classroom situation in his or her native country, it's not such a big deal. But . . . if the intent is to actually use it to communicate with native-English speakers . . . well . . .seems to me that part of teaching the language is teaching how it is used within the cultures where it is spoken.

I'm not saying that it needs to be a big deal, though. I think maybe that was your point, and I agree with you there. No reason to make the student feel bad about using language which was completely iinnocent and inoffensive within the context of the classroom.

[sarliz]

Thanks for the interesting responses, all. If it comes up again (this happened about a week ago, so I think bringing it up now makes a bigger deal out of it than I should), I'll just point out that this artist's name is a really bad word in English, so bad that he has a different name is the US, and I'll ask them to use that name for him if he comes up again (Thanks for the DJ Flex tidbit! Very useful.) This is only a kids class, so getting into it any more than that is probably a bit much.
The thing I can't wrap my mind around is why "Nigga" would think that that is an okay thing to call himself. I can't think of another instance of someone appropriating a crazily offensive name from another culture/race that has no bearing on their own situation, and using it as their own. Especially if you're going to do business in the original country. It's like if there was gangsta rapper calling himself Pinche Indio or something. In this day and age when you can google anything, it's hard to stomach ignorance as an excuse.

[Samantha]

Sarliz wrote:

[Oreen Scott]

Because I'm learning Spanish I use Google Mexico a lot.

So, Mexicans fortunate enough to have computer savy, and a computer, don't Google??? Why not? Is it because Google Mexico is inferior to, let's say Google Canada?

[Linda T.]

Please forgive me, Samantha, if I am misinterpreting your point, but . . . my take on your post was that it's easy for us to say that ignorance is "no excuse" when the subject of the ignorance is SO OBVIOUS to us.

I think that something which WE (including myself) tend to be ignorant of is that "negro" is a completely legitimate word in the Spanish language (meaning the color black) and it's roots are in the latin word for black which is "niger."

It is believed that "n-i-g-g-e-r" is the phonetic spelling of the white Southern pronunciation of Negro. Although it evolved to be a degenerative nickname . . . INITIALLY, the southern pronunciation of the word negro was no more derogatory than the southern pronunciation of the word caucasian. It was a perfectly respectable way to refer to the ethnicity which we now call Black or African-American.

If Mexicans are "ignorant" of all of the above . . . maybe, instead of blaming them . . . we should be blaming their English teachers who have not taken the time to make them aware of it .

(actually . . . my intent is NOT to blame English teachers . . . I'm just trying to make the point that maybe we shouldn't blame anybody and just do our best to transform ignorance into awareness where possible ).

[Oreen Scott]

As I've been reading this post throughout the last few days I've known all along there's a word for what is being discussed, but I've been busy doing other things. Now that I'm back into student study mode I remember. . . it's connotation.

To know a word means many things . . .spelling, pronunciation, denotation, collocation and connotation.

Now, I'm not trained, nor experienced, at this point anyway, in EFL classroom setting, so I don't know about an EFL classroom.

But in ESL (or EAL as Manitobans, who use an entirely differenty acronym than the rest of the world would call it) connotation would definitely have to be taught.

Perhaps, and I really don't know, connotation could be discussed, a dialogue, a learning situation for both the teacher and the student. The teacher could ask, Iin Mexico what is the connotation?" Listen to the answer and then add, "In my country, the connotation is very, very, very bad.

I wouldn't, naturally, suggest teaching the word but needless to say, words crop up all the time in a language teaching classroom.