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guatetaliana
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 112
Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Le�n, Mexico
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 Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I haven't seen the movie yet (somehow I keep missing good chances to see it, hopefully soon..). But I could comment on this:
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Question: Do you think that the majority of Mexicans that go illegally to the US to work are really better off? In the short term they make more money. But in the long term they don't have anyway to really establish themselves or to get ahead. At least here in Mexico there are things like IMSS, Infonovit, and credit and bank establishments (Banco Azteca, Banco Wal-Mart) that give out small loans and credit to working class people. |
Here's my opinion. People living in a desperate situation in rural Michoacan/Zacatecas/Jalisco where many immigrants in the US come from really are better off in the US. We're talking about people who come from those little pueblitos where running water is scarce and jobs are basically non-existent. Infonavit, loans, this stuff is pretty pointless for them. Then they risk it all to go to the US where they will have no legal status, but that's not really important to them when they were pretty much starving before.
They get to the US, pack themselves into a small house or apartment for a few years, shared with many others, but eventually, a couple years of work gets them enough to get their own place, often even buy their own house. They end up with multiple vehicles, huge TVs, stereo systems, etc. On top of that, they have enough to send hundreds, even thousands of dollars to their families in Mexico every month. The risk of deportation doesn't matter because there are always ways to get back in illegally. Could they get all this, working 50-55 hours a week, living in a city in Mexico with no education past grade 6? Yet in the US it's simply a matter of hard work. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| guatetaliana wrote: |
I haven't seen the movie yet (somehow I keep missing good chances to see it, hopefully soon..). But I could comment on this:
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Question: Do you think that the majority of Mexicans that go illegally to the US to work are really better off? In the short term they make more money. But in the long term they don't have anyway to really establish themselves or to get ahead. At least here in Mexico there are things like IMSS, Infonovit, and credit and bank establishments (Banco Azteca, Banco Wal-Mart) that give out small loans and credit to working class people. |
Here's my opinion. People living in a desperate situation in rural Michoacan/Zacatecas/Jalisco where many immigrants in the US come from really are better off in the US. We're talking about people who come from those little pueblitos where running water is scarce and jobs are basically non-existent. Infonavit, loans, this stuff is pretty pointless for them. Then they risk it all to go to the US where they will have no legal status, but that's not really important to them when they were pretty much starving before.
They get to the US, pack themselves into a small house or apartment for a few years, shared with many others, but eventually, a couple years of work gets them enough to get their own place, often even buy their own house. They end up with multiple vehicles, huge TVs, stereo systems, etc. On top of that, they have enough to send hundreds, even thousands of dollars to their families in Mexico every month. The risk of deportation doesn't matter because there are always ways to get back in illegally. Could they get all this, working 50-55 hours a week, living in a city in Mexico with no education past grade 6? Yet in the US it's simply a matter of hard work. |
The good ole' USA is still the land of opportunity. I find it interesting how some Americans choose to be lazy and unmotivated, yet they blame society and others for their laziness and problems. Meanwhile immigrants come to the US, without papers, friends, or the language and manage to be succesful. I guess it just depends on how bad you want it. |
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mapache
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Villahermosa
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Mexican men from Chiapas are much better off in America. Higher wages, escape from their suegra, wife and family to party with friends (in what little spare time they have - most work two jobs) If they need medical attention (even minor), they can just go to a hospital emergency room that, by law, can't turn them away.
It's a complex problem through which the 'lazy Americans" are manipulated by the religious right demonizing Mexicans as their scapegoat and common enemy "du jour" Illegal immigrants give the neocons a convenient platform justifying racism. In the meantime, Mexican immigrants make very little effort to assimilate like learning English or American customs like not throwing trash everywhere and playing loud music all night in a crowded neighborhood. Both sides are at fault and Calderon does little to encourage his paisanos to stay here. |
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kidcarbon
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| guatetaliana wrote: |
| ... but eventually, a couple years of work gets them enough to get their own place, often even buy their own house. They end up with multiple vehicles, huge TVs, stereo systems, etc. On top of that, they have enough to send hundreds, even thousands of dollars to their families in Mexico every month. The risk of deportation doesn't matter because there are always ways to get back in illegally. Could they get all this, working 50-55 hours a week, living in a city in Mexico with no education past grade 6? Yet in the US it's simply a matter of hard work. |
Saw the movie, loved it except for the Hollywood ending...now,
yes, I agree with everything guatetalinana says. Clearly, they have a better standard of living, and we should want that for everyone. But help me understand where my thinking goes wrong when I hear a little voice in the back of my head that says, "Yes, but they become materialistic too, just like Americans." I wish that wasn't part of the package. But they do get multiple vehicles, huge TVs, stereo systems, etc. They live to work, not the other way around. Is it a spiritual puzzle? |
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MikeySaid
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 509
Location: Torreon, Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| kidcarbon wrote: |
yes, I agree with everything guatetalinana says. Clearly, they have a better standard of living, and we should want that for everyone. But help me understand where my thinking goes wrong when I hear a little voice in the back of my head that says, "Yes, but they become materialistic too, just like Americans." I wish that wasn't part of the package. But they do get multiple vehicles, huge TVs, stereo systems, etc. They live to work, not the other way around. Is it a spiritual puzzle? |
When people go from poverty to a 1st world middle class standard of living in a span of ten years... it's hard to ask them not to be materialistic... after all, it is their focus on improving their quality of life that drives their endeavors, and they buy into the american dream like everyone else. Many of them are satisfied to live simple lives and send remesas home (makes up 30% of Mexico's economy, so they obviously aren't THAT materialistic), but some of them get caught up in gangs, drugs, partying, or putting rims on their cars. |
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kidcarbon
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Boy, can I kill a thread..or topic. Lots of people have looked at the thread since your post, Mikey, but none have added to it.
I don't believe they have become "THAT" materialistic. I know several who haven't, some who have found some balance like the ones you describe.
Still, the irony is that they lose what I find appealing from their own cultures for what I find repugnant in our own.
Sure was a decent movie, though, huh? |
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