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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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I'd call the use of 'guys' to refer to a group of both sexes, a slang usage of the term myself. I'd say it's a newer use... not that I've ever done any research on this useless piece of information. 
VS |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:49 am Post subject: Trivial Pursuit |
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Dear veiledsentiments,
Ah, but useless information is my life.
Regards,
John |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Having been carried out or accomplished; finished
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OK, so when my student tells me "Miss, I'm done", she means that she 'has been carried out or accomplished'??? Now, I could tolerate "Miss, it (the essay, task, whatever) is done", but "I'm done" just sounds plain wrong to me, however acceptable it may be in Des Moines. |
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lall
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Done |
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Do you think, "Miss, I've done" is bettah?  |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Personally, I insist on "I've finished" or "It's finished". "I've done" sounds odd because it lacks an object. Yes, so does "Ive finished" but this particular usage is quite common and, as far as I know, considered correct. Again, "I've done" might go down fine in Kansas, but I see no reason why I should accept it, just as I cringe when my students (or colleagues) refer to me as a 'guy'. |
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MyTrunkshow
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 234
Location: One map inch from Iraq
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: My gosh. |
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Are you so abrasive with your students or just on a forum?
Your writing style from this thread alone is captioned below...
Cleo wrote:
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| intensely irritated |
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| don't even get me started |
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| I ask them (Cleo's students) if they are chickens revolving on a barbeque spit |
..or are you actually just jokingly disapproving of variability and the evolving nature of language, people and life?
You're about as serious as a Russian diplomat and as cutting as white shark who missed out on eating for two months. Lighten up me love. Before you know it, we'll all be in olde folks' homes reminiscing about all the kindness we fostered around us.
Since joining this forum last year after having read it for 7 years, I'm getting off the forum bus. There are too many out there like Trapezius, Cleo, VS (on occasion), brasscat, ...ad nauseum.
It's a sham the way teachers (aka, people) speak to each other in writing. A sham. With such a wide selection of vocabulary available, why are such ill-mannered words chosen? Why do people put down/attack others so often on (particularly) this ME forum?
Lighten up.
I'm outta here.
Regards,
mytrunkshow |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Lighten up me love. |
Anything to make you happy, honey pie.
Your contributions from Banquio, TW, will be sorely missed on the Saudi forum. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Honey, I am done when I am finished!
It seems I am going to finish some posters here, and send them to Uncle Sam for brain surgery! They will be cooked and finished. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: My gosh. |
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| MyTrunkshow wrote: |
It's a sham the way teachers (aka, people) speak to each other in writing. A sham. With such a wide selection of vocabulary available, why are such ill-mannered words chosen? Why do people put down/attack others so often on (particularly) this ME forum?
Lighten up.
I'm outta here.
Regards,
mytrunkshow |
Quite frankly it could go the other way with all the sweetness and sugar coated niceties can also make one sick! personally i have no problem with the variety of writing styles...and it is the variety that makes reading these posts more interesting...
comon! don't be such a prude! maybe just need to develope a thicker skin??? By tomorrow all will be forgotten anyways....  |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Personally, I insist on "I've finished" or "It's finished". "I've done" sounds odd because it lacks an object. Yes, so does "Ive finished" but this particular usage is quite common |
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| "Miss, I'm done", she means that she 'has been carried out or accomplished'??? Now, I could tolerate "Miss, it (the essay, task, whatever) is done", |
So according to you "I've finished" and "It's finished" are both OK, even though you admit that the first one lacks an object. But just because it is "quite common" it is fine to use it. Isn't "I'm done" "quite common" too?
Just like "I've finished" is actually short for "I've finished the task", "I'm done" is short for "I'm done with the task".
They are both correct.
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One thing I always tried to avoid when teaching English was to enforce my personal dialect on my students. Where American and British English differ, I always accepted both as correct.
We have enough frustrations in life without trying to enforce our own idiolect on the world. |
Good for you, VS. That's the way it should be. |
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lall
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Done and over with |
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| trapezius wrote: |
Just like "I've finished" is actually short for "I've finished the task", "I'm done" is short for "I'm done with the task".
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Don't mean to say that you are wrong, Trapezius, but somehow, to me, "I'm done with the task" seems to imply that the speaker seems to be disgustedly relieved that the task is over with an added implication that the speaker doesn't intend taking up another such task.
I wonder what Nader and Enad think! |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| trapezius wrote: |
Just like "I've finished" is actually short for "I've finished the task", "I'm done" is short for "I'm done with the task".
They are both correct. |
And exactly the same...
VS |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't mean to say that you are wrong, Trapezius, but somehow, to me, "I'm done with the task" seems to imply that the speaker seems to be disgustedly relieved that the task is over with an added implication that the speaker doesn't intend taking up another such task. |
I agree that that implication can be inferred. So be it! 
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Here is another similar article, this one tells similar stories about the NYT article, but about young girls rather than boys.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/12/mideast/saudi.php
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As for this Enad tosser, he is a *beep* and I pray that he is infertile (and other men like him in the Gulf... and if they really turn out to be infertile, the Gulf would be a much better place to live in within 2-3 generations).
Let's look at this character:
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| Enad pretended to toss his burning cigarette at the woman |
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| "She is alone, without a man," Enad said, explaining why they were disgusted, not just with her, but with her male relatives, too, wherever they were. |
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| When a man joined her at the table - someone they assumed was her husband - she removed her face veil, which fueled Enad and Nader's hostility. They continued to make mocking hand gestures and comments until the couple changed tables. Even then, the woman was so flustered she held the cloth self-consciously over her face throughout her meal. |
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| "Thank God our women are at home," Enad said. |
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| Enad is quiet and hides his cigarettes when his grandfather comes through. He would never tell his father or grandfather that he smokes. |
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| His connection is Enad, who secretly slipped Sarah a cellphone that Nader had bought for her. |
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| Enad and his cousins absentmindedly toss trash out the kitchen window, and around the yard, expecting that the "houseboy" will clean up after them. |
So he harasses women in malls (why is he looking at them in the first place, if he prays 5 times a day?).
He smokes (which is Haram) and then deceives his family into thinking he doesn't smoke.
He litters the desert and the streets (which every Saudi does).
And then to top it all off, he dishonors his family by giving a cellphone to his 17 yo sister so she can talk to his/her 22 yo cousin secretly behind everyone's back.
He does all these forbidden things, but then talks of protecting honor and family:
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| "If I call someone and a girl answers, I have to apologize. It's a huge deal. It is a violation of the house." |
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| "If someone comes in to your house, will you stand there or will you fight them?" Enad said. "Arab or Muslim lands are like one house." |
By this logic, shouldn't there be "jihad" conducted against him when he harasses women in malls? "Arab or Muslim lands are like one house" as long as he is allowed to do as he pleases, violating man-made laws, Islamic laws, and traditions?
And last but not least, let's look at these fine gems from a Dr. Phil-in-making:
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| "a man - a real man - could not reject a woman who wanted him" |
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| "With one or two or three words, a man can get what he wants from a woman." |
Wow, he sure has figured out what it means to be a woman (and man)! It is obvious he is compensating for something (infertility?) with all this tough talk, bravado, and macho behaviour.
Sad that people such as him exist in this world, and they are the ones who will be producing a lot more children than the rational people in the world.
Last edited by trapezius on Tue May 13, 2008 12:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| "I'm done" is good, correct, common Standard English. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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And regarding referring to both sexes as "guys", well, it could be seen to be an improvement over "guys and gals" or, even worse, "guys and dolls."
It might been seen as indicating equality - or (perhaps more likely) as merely laziness.
Regards,
John |
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