Job Discussion Forums

[Harry from NWE]

[redsoxfan]

That's very interesting Harry. I know that with a 50,000 zl investment, Americans (and surely Canadians, Australians, etc) can set up a biz (I believe some kind of limited liability corporation), but I'm not sure that I can set up any kind of biz I want to. The real question is: Can I set up the simplest possible form of a company? Your lawyer friend is basically correct that once you have a company, the karta pobytu follows.

Dynow, Sparks, what is the name in Polish for the kind of company you have? How much ZUS do you pay and how much do you pay your accountant monthly? I take it you use your company in order to send an invoice to a school you work for, or do you have your own in-company classes?

I've got a NIP number. The PESEL number is unique to the company, right? So I wouldn't get it from a school like Sparks says, I would get it when I register the company, right? If, on the other hand, the PESEL is a personal number unique to me, then I've already got one.

Why would it be a problem to register the company in time if all I need to do is go to a notariusz, have him write up the biz contract, get my PESEL and register the company?

[dynow]

Sparks wrote:

"I registered as a company but had a work visa from a school first. I think that if you just show up here without any papers it may be difficult to get your company paperwork done in time. You need NIP and PESEL to get it done--these you should get from a school you are working at. To start the company you need a place to live i.e. zameldowania. to get your karta pobytu you need the company. You also need to show that your company makes money to get the KB. So the steps would be 1) get the zameldowania 2) register your company 3) take your company papers to the foreigner's office and get your karta pobytu. This could take months depending on how diligent you are and how many weeks of your life you have to stand around in lines."

no.

the school has nothing to do with your PESEL or NIP. Your PESEL you get yourself from the Urzad Miasto, including your NIP.

secondly, in order to get a KB, you need the company AND zameldowania.

thirdly, you do not need to show your company making money, but you may need to show that you have sufficient funds to float yourself while you are first starting. when I first registered my company, it was a NEW company......how can I show that my company makes money if I just started? I needed to go to a notary, pay 50 PLN, and have them verify and translate into polish an offshore bank account statement. I had to do it, the American guy I work with that just acquired his, did not. Hey, that's Poland.

if you know where to go and what to do, it won't take that long. it just takes the standard review period after applying before you get it, which can be up to 90 days. also, be prepared to have the Police come to your residence to check that you actually live there. I have registered my business in Poznan and now in Wroclaw, and the Police came both times.

regarding the school you will work for, you need a contract from them saying that you are aware of the school rules, how much you are getting paid, bla bla. My DOS just wrote up some BS document, but you need it to prove you have a means of income.

otherwise, just do the paperwork. like I said, my American buddy JUST got his KB, and he was WAY over the 45 day limit. they don't care. as long as you know what paperwork you need to get, which I'm assuming you do being that you've already been through this rigamerole, you should have no probs.

i re-registered for another 1 year KB just a couple months ago, I had to go through the same BS, but the important thing is there were no snags, it went through fine.

[redsoxfan]

Dynow,

1) What kind of company do you have?
2) If your friend filed for his KP after 88 days, does that mean he overstayed his travel visa in Poland while he waited for the paperwork?
3) Do you need an extra room in your flat which is designated as an office space? We did.
4) How much do you pay in ZUS and accounting monthly?
5) To clarify: You registered this business with absolutely no prior karta pobytu or work contract?

[dynow]

ok.

1) Zaswiadzcenie. My "company" is just a one man, freelance independent-type arrangement. I work, give my school an invoice.

2) Yes. Consider this: You are allowed 90 days in the Schengen. You come to Poland and after 2 weeks, you find a job and get your flat. A week after that, someone who speaks Polish drags you around all the offices to get your paperwork done. By week 4, you apply for the KB with all your necessary paperwork prepared. So ok, you are under the 45 day limit......but it is absolutely impossible to acquire the KB before the 90 day stipulation is up. Impossible. Like I said, the review period is 3 months, and on top of that, they can always come back after your review period and say, "well, we would like you to still provide us with this paper and that paper," which happened to me the first time I applied, whereas then it took another few weeks to get it all finalized.

Basically, as long as you get the ball rolling with that KB application before your 90 days are up, you're in the clear. Think about it, if they weren't flexible with this, nobody would be able to come to Poland to work without a corporate sponsor.

3) I am very familiar with the "2nd room" issue. I haven't had any problems personally with it, both times I filed for my KB was in a little flat, 1 room and 1 bedroom.

4) ZUS = 300 PLN. My accountant = 150

5) I registered this business with absolutely no prior karta pobytu or work contract.

and your other question:

the school I work for. the contract is to show proof of employment. it doesn't matter how many hours you agree to work with the school, they just need to see that you have an agreement with someone that you will be working there.

the contract was BS because it was merely a formality to get the KB through. i have no legal connection to my school outside of the little contract my DOS wrote up. i work, i send an invoice, they pay.

Poland simply wants to see that you have a legal place to live and guaranteed income.

glad to answer any other questions. i know how much of a pain in the dupa this can be

[Harry from NWE]

[redsoxfan]

Thanks Dynow and Harry,

Dynow: If I get the ball rolling in late August, how can I bill a school if I have to wait up to three months for the business to be registered?

Are you saying that, in your experience, I can simply overstay my tourist visa while I wait for the company to be registered? And continue working and billing a school on top of that?

Let's get some clarification on this NIP/PESOL thing. I thought that your NIP is like a Social Security number in the States--it doesn't change. Harry says it does. I think Harry has it backwards: your NIP doesn't change but your PESOL is unique to the business. Our former biz had a PESOL and we each had a NIP, which I still have. The PESOL only pertains to our company. Yeah?

[dynow]

now for the interesting part:

you do not need a Karta Pubytu to have your own business. you establish your NIP, PESOL, have a place to run your "business" out of, and you can start billing your school/clients. the KB has nothing to do with your business as a whole. think of this: if you married an extremely wealthy woman and came to Poland with her, you would need a KB in order to stay here because you don't have a Polish passport. all the KB does for you is give you legal residence. the fact that you can open a business, a bank account, rent an apt., get a tax number, a PESOL......without a KB.........again, that's Poland.

so yes, you can overstay your welcome while waiting for your KB, because it is only to give you legal residence. as far as your business, you will have that set up in a couple days. after that, go to a bank and open up a business bank account, and you're ready to start sending out invoices.

your PESOL is just an identification number. the NIP had to be different for both of you because you each are responsible for your own taxes. either way bud, just bring your old stuff to the offices, they'll tell you what you need.

btw, do you have someone you can take with you who can speak polish really well to make sure it all goes smoothly? office people here, as you know, aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, and basically nobody there speaks any english.

[redsoxfan]

I owe you a beer dynow.

A couple more questions:

1) Does the place where the company is registered have to have fire exits, no wooden stairs, and all this nonsense? I think those regs are only if you will be receiving clients.
2) Usually ZUS is about 750 zl, but you pay 300. Is that due to the special low-ZUS-for-the-first-two-years thing?

You say that I will have my business set up in a couple of days. Is that true? Since I have my NIP number already, can I get the PESEL on the spot? I ask because I will have two weeks in Warsaw, then back to Boston for about six weeks. I'd love to have the biz up and running when I come back in late Aug/early Sept.

[dynow]

1) The place where my business is registered is a simple 50 sq. meter flat, no fire exits, nothing special. just a flat.

2) ZUS is actually about 850 a month now. Yes, I am currently paying the honeymoon rate but that party will be over in a few months. There are other threads on this forum about private insurance companies, I will be thoroughly looking into this myself once my time is up. 850 per month is just a waste of my money if I will be going to private doctors for everything anyway.

The PESOL takes no time at all. You won't get it the day you go, you need to go a few days later and pick it up. so go on a monday. (50 PLN, i believe.)

[Revenant]

Some recent antagonistic posts have been removed.

A reminder to recent partiipants in this thread: if you cannot abide by the rules of the site ( refer to the sticky's)civility you will not be welcome to post on Dave's and further actions will be taken if need arises(such consequences are outlined in said sticky's as well).

Poland, UAE, Qatar or any where else, you are welcome to be here as long as you abide by the rules.

[redsoxfan]

Ok, here it is: this is taken from www.paiz.gov.pl which is a government-run website detailing how to do business in Poland.

"Individual conducting of business activity as well as civil partnership require neither initial capital outlays nor high costs related to setting up business activity. Entry in the Business Activity Register (Ewidencja działalności gospodarczej), requiring only to fill in a few forms, is charged only PLN 100. However, one must be aware of the fact that these forms of conducting business activity impose unlimited liability of entrepreneurs for their enterprises' obligations."

It goes on to say:

Entry in the business activity register (Ewidencja działalności gospodarczej)

Purpose

Operation of a small business by an individual.

Founder

Individual

Minimum capital

N/A

Legal personality

None. An individual is referred to as an entrepreneur.

Liability

The entrepreneur is liable for his or her debts and obligations with his or her entire property.

Taxation

PIT Declaration - Personal Income Tax.

Establishment process

Entry in the Business Activity Register (ewidencja działalności gospodarczej) maintained by the head of a commune (w�jt), the mayor of a town or the president of a city.

Additional requirements for foreign investors

International agreements on reciprocity should be in place (emphasis added). Otherwise, a foreign investor is required to present a certificate issued by the competent Polish representation abroad, stating that, in accordance with the principle of reciprocity, Polish entrepreneurs are permitted to conduct business activity in the country in which the investor has permanent residency or registered office.


Obviously what dynow is saying is all completely correct and he didn't just "slip through" in some bureaucratic oversight as my friend had guessed. It's that *&#% simple. I wonder if citizens of Australia, NZ and Canada have the same reciprocal agreements with Poland. They would do well to check that out.

[redsoxfan]

Does anyone know where I can find out about the reciprocity agreements between Poland and the USA? Can't find anything specific on Google. Harry, maybe this lawyer knows some details.

Some info on the internet says that only EEC members can set up this kind of business that dynow is talking about. Others say that you need permanent residence. Dynow clearly didn't, nor did his friend.

[redsoxfan]

Hmmm...according to numerous websites which share the same text:

Foreign persons [1] from the EU and European Free Trade Agreement zones belonging to the European Economic Area may undertake and run business on the basis of the same rules applicable to Polish entrepreneurs.
The same rules also apply to foreigners living outside the EEA who:

*received a permit to settle on the Polish territory
*a consent for tolerated stay or a status of refugee granted in the Republic of Poland
*enjoy temporary protection within this territory

Other foreign persons have the right, unless international agreements state otherwise, to undertake and run business activity only in the following forms:

*limited partnership
*limited joint-stock partnership
*limited liability company
*joint-stock company

They have also the right to enter these kind of partnerships or companies and purchase their shares."


Ok, so what does it mean, 'unless international agreements state otherwise'? That's the key, isn't it? I've checked the US and Polish embassy websites which only link me to this sort of info.

Phew, I've been here before--searching for concrete information and getting a wall of contradictions.

[dynow]

when the schengen regs first passed, i did some researching on my own regarding the KB/legalities of 'mmmmerrricans being on Polish soil, mainly because I was afraid for my fellow American I was and am working with currently at my school.

My first course of action was to email the embassy in Warsaw and flat out ask them what the law was. I told them what I had heard, explained to them explicitly what my "friend" was dealing with, and they more or less reiterated what I had already known. The email was about 3 sentences. If I can dig it up, I'll post it.

BUT...............they did it Polish style (no, not without articles or perfect tenses ). it was far from reassuring that they knew for sure that these were the rules or that they would be strictly reinforced because they wrote it "As far as we know" and "if you would like to look into this further, you should contact your local office" or something to that nature. you get the idea.

What the email sounded like to me was that the person writing the email was about as familiar with these new border rules as I was, and was trying to pass the buck by directing me to another source to avoid responsibility.

If it's any concilation, I've been to the US twice since coming to Poland over the past 18 months, and I've never had a problem crossing/re-entering either borders. I show my KB along with my Passport, and all's good.