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sweeney66



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: "home"

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Checked it out in the book store and gave it a miss.
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cscx



Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started reading it...I do like it and it's written with a more positive outlook than most things I've read. That being said, I think it is intended for foreigners looking to learn about Mexico City, and people who have lived there for awhile may not find it to be very useful.

But, then again, I'm not terribly far into it. Smile
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MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: review Reply with quote

Phil_K wrote:
notamiss wrote:


I agree; joven as an address is "young man," and is a casually respectful way to address someone. If anything, it could be slightly flattering to address a man of uncertain years as though he were young.


Despite everyone telling me that it's flattering, it's one form of address that I'll never get used to! Sad ,


Would you rather be addressed as "viejo", and not as a term of endearment? Very Happy
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cscx



Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I couldn't wait until the plane ride and have read more...

One thing that strikes me as odd is his chapter about sexuality. He really plays up machismo, saying that men want women just like their mothers, but find that sexually unsatisfying and constantly cheat on their partners. He says that this is pretty much accepted practice.

Pretty broad statement. Also didn't really talk about what age range he was looking at. I have several male Mexican friends and they seem no different to me than my male American friends in terms of relationships. But, then again, we are all 20-something year olds.

Have you guys noticed significant generational differences within this venue? Do younger Mexicans tend to be more like their American/Canadian/British/etc counterparts, or do I just know a select few?
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MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From observation, chatting with Mexican female (and male) friends, and personal experience (even from my vantage point as a "mature" woman), I would have to say that machismo is still alive and well in Mexico, with exceptions, of course. Another problem for non-Mexican women here is that I think that Mexican men see us as "easy" targets for their not unconsiderable charms and behave accordingly with us.
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dixie



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 644
Location: D.F

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MO39 wrote:
From observation, chatting with Mexican female (and male) friends, and personal experience (even from my vantage point as a "mature" woman), I would have to say that machismo is still alive and well in Mexico, with exceptions, of course. Another problem for non-Mexican women here is that I think that Mexican men see us as "easy" targets for their not unconsiderable charms and behave accordingly with us.


"Easy" meaning what? I know how many a Mexican man has taken the word to mean when applying it to me, or other foreign females!
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MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dixie wrote:
MO39 wrote:
From observation, chatting with Mexican female (and male) friends, and personal experience (even from my vantage point as a "mature" woman), I would have to say that machismo is still alive and well in Mexico, with exceptions, of course. Another problem for non-Mexican women here is that I think that Mexican men see us as "easy" targets for their not unconsiderable charms and behave accordingly with us.


"Easy" meaning what? I know how many a Mexican man has taken the word to mean when applying it to me, or other foreign females!


Ah, dixie, you know what I meant. That we'll jump into bed with them at the drop of a hat, or perhaps an especially endearing "piropo"!
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anybody found this book for sale in DF yet?

I would like to have a copy...

About the macho thing... When I was taking my TEFL course in Chiapas I went out one night in Tuxtla Gutierrez with the other teachers and students who all happened to be white females. The reactions of the Mexican men in the street shocked me... Shocked

They had no shame at all. The stares, obscene gestures, piropos etc were closer to something I would have expected from hardcore prison inmates, not supposed Mexican "gentlemen". Even the men that were with their wives and girlfriends acted as if they didn't exist and went bonkers at the sight of some gringas. A really disgusting show of machismo from crude men. The women that were with me told me they were grateful to have a man with them because the show and behavior of the men in the street was usually much worse... Evil or Very Mad
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MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof.Gringo wrote:

About the macho thing... When I was taking my TEFL course in Chiapas I went out one night in Tuxtla Gutierrez with the other teachers and students who all happened to be white females. The reactions of the Mexican men in the street shocked me... Shocked

They had no shame at all. The stares, obscene gestures, piropos etc were closer to something I would have expected from hardcore prison inmates, not supposed Mexican "gentlemen". Even the men that were with their wives and girlfriends acted as if they didn't exist and went bonkers at the sight of some gringas. A really disgusting show of machismo from crude men. The women that were with me told me they were grateful to have a man with them because the show and behavior of the men in the street was usually much worse... Evil or Very Mad


I wonder what part of town you were in since you describe the men as "crude". That kind of behavior sounds a bit over the top even for Mexico. I also wonder if this display of the macho male at its worse is more common in some parts of the country than in others. Nothing like that happens where I live in the D.F., but maybe that's because they're used to seeing the occasional non-Mexican woman walking around, women who are often their neighbors!
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Construction workers seem to be group that fits the profile here, though that's true of Canada too.
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MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy Courchesne wrote:
Construction workers seem to be group that fits the profile here, though that's true of Canada too.


Maybe Tuxtla has an over abundance of construction workers in its population. Wink In the US construction workers also fit this profile, though it only happens to women who walk by their worksite in daytime, not at night when they're out with their wives and girlfriends!
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MO39 wrote:
Guy Courchesne wrote:
Construction workers seem to be group that fits the profile here, though that's true of Canada too.


Maybe Tuxtla has an over abundance of construction workers in its population. Wink In the US construction workers also fit this profile, though it only happens to women who walk by their worksite in daytime, not at night when they're out with their wives and girlfriends!


That's what I saw in Tuxtla, not a very friendly place, unless you happen to be a white woman...

Those guys were from all different backgrounds. I've seen it all over Mexico, just not as bad usually.

I have also received the "hate" stare when out with my wife. Mexican men will try to make eye contact and give me the meanest, most macho hate filled look... I usually respond by giving my wife a nice deep kiss just to p!ss them off some more. I guess Latin women are reserved for macho's while gringas are fair game for the great Latin liars...err..lovers
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...I never experienced that while married to my Mexican wife. In fact, the norm would be random people chatting us both up and commenting how amazing it is that a Canadian lives here with his local wife. Maybe there's a difference there between Tuxtla and DF.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy Courchesne wrote:
Hmm...I never experienced that while married to my Mexican wife. In fact, the norm would be random people chatting us both up and commenting how amazing it is that a Canadian lives here with his local wife. Maybe there's a difference there between Tuxtla and DF.


No, because I never spent much time in Tuxtla, only my first month in Mexico was spent in Chiapas. All of my time has been in Tijuana, Mexico City, and a month in Quretaro.... A short span in SLP.

I notice the bad looks don't really happen in my fresa middle-upper class neighborhood... mostly in the poor, naco areas...
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MELEE



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last night I asked my husband if he thought guys on the street envied him when they saw us together. He said yes certainly. Then I asked him if he thought gringas were easy and he said, "now, no way, before yes." Laughing
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