Job Discussion Forums

[william wallace]

Dear Joe,
"tightened the examiner frame" - I love language ! You can say one thing and mean another. I prefer to say that they have disallowed an examiner from using their own God given talents...a McTest approach, if you will.

STANDARDIZATION Isn't the Chinese approach to language highly standardized ?

[Joe C.]

[flutterbayou]

[englishgibson]

[flutterbayou]

Please send me the source of those figures you picked up. I am interested in the demographics.

Some students go to the USA on TOEFL as visiting scholars and aren't there to obtain a degree. These figures would represent those who do not enter a uni with the intention of graduating, but whom are not dropping out.

Competition is also fierce at American universities. Some may not like the sounds of it, but standards are quite high. The TOEFL is a determiner, to an extent, as to whether the test taker is able to survive in a pro-active, highly discursive learning environment.

The publisher I mentioned offers desk copies. I don't know hwere you are located, but one could be mailed to you from either Beijing or Shanghai. Just a thought....

[Mei Sheng]

Someone typed -

"Not 30 % but 60 % ...meaning that 6 out of 10 graduate in UK..those are the ones that take IELTS prior to uni studies there

on the other hand, 7 out of 10 fail in the US and that after they pass their TOEFL"

Both IELTS and TOEFL are jokes that make money.

I guess these stats mean that the US doesn't have any money grubbing Foundation programs. I don't understand how anyone can attain a degree in 3 years.

God Bless the last bastion of real education.

Mei Sheng

[william wallace]

I love the linguistics behind the IELTS,but ya need a good examiner.

[englishgibson]

i prefer IELTS 'cause there's a real person to speak to and speaking's in my opinion a fairly valuable skill for uni students..they get their presentations to do and there's that neccessity to communicate everywhere..if one can't then he/she is out and rather quickly too

[flutterbayou]

quote]the TOEFL "test taker" is agreeably up for a competition, although the computer may not determine the "test taker's" real ability to communicate...from my experience, many chinese get really nervous or uncomfortable when i am speaking to them and looking into their eyes at the same time

Computers don't rate the responses - two to three raters do, which is better than IELTS' manner of scoring, in my view.

By the way, ETS is non-profit.

[Larry Parnell]

Oh, and when do you call in 3 (I'm just interested in the line when 2 aren't good enough).

[william wallace]

"ETS is non-profit", as is the British Council it is registered as a ...Charity!

[Leon Purvis]

[arioch36]

Actually it is England that has gone all out to get Chinese students. England has a much higher percentage of ASsian students, much higher, then America does. And several years ago, certainly you are aware that British colleges were allowed to adopt a plan that allowed for two identically credited classes, one for native speakers and those non-native speakers who wished to be in the class, and another identically credited class for non-natives speakers who couldn't achieve success in the regular classroom. Students from the "real" class and the "watered-down" class receive the same degree. Students in this kind of program tend to drop out a lot less.
Don't mean for this to be a "my country against your country" I always respected British colleges from ny time in England, but it ain't the same as it was. Just read a report a few days ago where some education minister was warning that the British Uni system was becoming too dependent on the Asian, particularly Chinese influx of students.

Scholarships go to financial needy, as opposed to other countries where the rich Chinese parents buy their kid's way into college regardless of performance. I still have not heard of an American college offering separate classes with the same credit to students who were not able to successfully complete the "regular" class's requirements

Maybe this doesn't happen in America because most unis have tons of cash and endowments.

For instance, Harvard has so much money, they would not need to charge any tuition until 2085, and still have enough income to cover all costs

Does anyone remember the Qingdao (Ocean school?) scandal a few years ago? This school was sending its students to a ? Manchester? college with faked test scores, many of the "students" weren't even attending classes.

I just can't understand how someone who cheated on their IELTS test (7 in China, then 3 or 4 in England) is not punished, if not outright dismissal, at least some kind of suspension. But no, they are put in some remedial language class (big money maker) and allowed one way or another to get their college degree, just like in China

[Joe C.]

[arioch36]

gee, when i was in school, such "passes" were only for the football players.